Ilford Multigrade Developer capacity

[miha]

Actually, the Ilford data sheet does say:
" It [Ilford Multigrade developer] is usually used at a dilution of 1+9 but for greater development control and economy it can be used at 1+14."

Yes, but see post #7

 

[runswithsizzers]

You say you are mixing the developer "1 liter (940+60ml)." I don't know how you got those numbers, but...

As others have mentioned 60 mL developer plus 940 mL water does not result in a 1+14 dilution -- but is more like 1+15.7. Not a huge error, and probably not the reason you are not getting more prints per liter. But still, why not be more accurate, if practical?

Any 1+14 dilution means your final solution will have a total of 15 parts. So, 1 liter = 1000 mL divided by 15 parts, means one part = 66.67mL, or 66.7mL, or 67mL, or 70mL when rounded, depending on the precision of you measuring tools.

The correct tool for measuring 66.7 mL of liquid would be a 100 mL graduated cylinder. They can be bought in plastic or glass for not very much money. If this is a solution you are going to making often, then it might be worth the effort to get a 100 mL graduated cylinder.

But if you don't have a 100 mL graduated cylinder, you can still make a dilution that is close to 1+14. You say your beakers are marked in tens -- I assume you mean 10 mL, right? So if you can measure 70mL, then add that to (70x14=) 980mL water which will make a 1+14 dilution with a total volume of 1,050 mL. I am guessing if your total volume is a little more than 1000 mL, it won't really matter, right?

 

[snusmumriken]

OK, so his working solution has 10% less active ingredients than 1+14. That cannot explain the difference between a stated capacity of 40 and his observed capacity of 15 8x10 FB prints.

 

[MattKing]

OK, so his working solution has 10% less active ingredients than 1+14. That cannot explain the difference between a stated capacity of 40 and his observed capacity of 15 8x10 FB prints.

Correct - but if he/she is using only a litre of slightly more dilute working strength developer in a largish (11x14?) tray and it is spending large portions of a 6-7 hour period exposed to the air, all the factors together could cause problems with the capacity projection.
So far, we haven't seen an answer to my questions:
"What size tray are you using?
And how much working strength developer?
And how many 8x10 or equivalent prints are you doing in that 6-7 hours?"

 

[runswithsizzers]

OK, so his working solution has 10% less active ingredients than 1+14. That cannot explain the difference between a stated capacity of 40 and his observed capacity of 15 8x10 FB prints.

I suspect you are correct, and I said as much in my post. While several posts in this thread advised the OP that they are using the wrong dilution, I don't see where anybody suggested how to make a more accurate dilution. So maybe my post was off-topic, but perhaps useful?

 

[MattKing]

I don't see where anybody suggested how to make a more accurate dilution.

935 ml + 65 ml works great.
If 5ml differences are too fine for the graduates used, 930 ml + 70 ml is also fine, and is almost as economical.

 

[rcphoto]

I'm impressed with being able to print for 7-8 hours. 3 hours is my max including clean up time. One time I pushed it to 4 hours and I do vaguely remember stopping because my developer had died.

 

[cliveh]

I don't print for more than about 2 hours max.

 

[MattKing]

I don't print for more than about 2 hours max.

My darkroom setup is a temporary one, and most of the contents have to come from different storage locations. As a result, set-up and clean-up/take-down times are fairly long - 45 minutes at least for each. I understand the desire for longer life from a developer, and I use replenishment to achieve it.

 

[snusmumriken]

I suspect you are correct, and I said as much in my post. While several posts in this thread advised the OP that they are using the wrong dilution, I don't see where anybody suggested how to make a more accurate dilution. So maybe my post was off-topic, but perhaps useful?

Yes, I'm sorry, I was really replying to post #26.

I'd be inclined to mix 70 + 980 as you suggest. 1+9 is much easier to reckon, though.

 

[pentaxuser]

OK, so his working solution has 10% less active ingredients than 1+14. That cannot explain the difference between a stated capacity of 40 and his observed capacity of 15 8x10 FB prints.

Me neither. 40 and 15 represent a massive difference over a "working" day of say 8 hours Has Ilford vastly overestimated MG's capacity? It looks that way based on all users' experience so far expressed even when we place all the "caveats" so far expressed on how 40 might be achieved

Not that it really matters. The OP can't get near 40 and neither can anyone else and that's the "bottom line" here or so it seems to me

pentaxuser

 

[cliveh]

Me neither. 40 and 15 represent a massive difference over a "working" day of say 8 hours Has Ilford vastly overestimated MG's capacity? It looks that way based on all users' experience so far expressed even when we place all the "caveats" so far expressed on how 40 might be achieved

Not that it really matters. The OP can't get near 40 and neither can anyone else and that's the "bottom line" here or so it seems to me

pentaxuser

Well one only has to look at Ilford's how to develop a film: -

 

[snusmumriken]

I was just wondering ... Does working capacity of the developer depend on how black (ie shadow-rich) your prints are?

 

[cliveh]

I was just wondering ... Does working capacity of the developer depend on how black (ie shadow-rich) your prints are?

How true. 20 prints of a white sky are vastly different to twenty prints of a view inside a coal shed.

 

[Richard Jepsen]

I just printed with newly purchased Multigrade. I don’t typically mix 1:14.5 but this time I did. I printed (4) 8x10s plus a few 1.5 inch test strips on Ilford Deluxe RC. DR temp 20C. The induction time was 20s for the image to be partly formed. Total time in tray 2:20m.

My last print did not develop a high tone as fully as the first print. Now this is just one sample so I may be wrong. I’m going to use a slightly stronger 1:12 dilution. DR session lasts 2 hours and the tray was 8x10.

 

[Peter Schrager]

do 12 prints to a tray as taught to me by Fred picker...why compromise your prints or your time??
also make your own developer...you like paying to transport water?? much cheaper too!
have a happy holiday!!

 

[Richard Jepsen]

You can make a strong case for mixing your own paper developer. On the other hand I try to minimize my footprint and I’m at the end of my DR activity.

 

[relistan]

I've used multigrade developer a lot. I find it has a lot more capacity than folks are quoting here. I've even had pretty good success putting it into an accordion container after a short printing session, and removing all the air, then using it again a couple of days later for another short session.

 

[Ron789]

Could it be that accidentally some stop bath is spilled into the developer, e.g. putting the paper with a tool in the stop bath and then putting that same tool back in the developer?

 

[thefizz]

Try Moersch developers, they last much longer.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

In the ILFORD official data sheet, it says that 1 liter of working strength developer can handle 40 8x10 prints at a 1+14 dilution, but in my experience, it's been much less than that. I notice the developer starts getting exhausted after around 15 prints.

What’s your experience?

Can't tell. I'm using exclusively Dektol D72.

 

[snusmumriken]

To get this discussion into perspective, I just rediscovered the calculations below where I'd stored them on my phone.

Ilford Multigrade developer costs around £20 for a litre of concentrate. At 1+14, that will make 15 litres of working solution. Even at the OP's observed rate of 15 sheets capacity, that works out at £0.08 per 8x10 sheet (nominal capacity gives £0.03 per sheet). The stop bath will cost an additional £0.01 and the fixer £0.05 (using Ilford chemicals). A total of £0.14 per sheet for chemicals at worst (and at best £0.09).

In comparison, each sheet of 8x10 FB paper costs approximately £1.25.

 

[relistan]

To get this discussion into perspective, I just rediscovered the calculations below where I'd stored them on my phone.

Ilford Multigrade developer costs around £20 for a litre of concentrate. At 1+14, that will make 15 litres of working solution. Even at the OP's observed rate of 15 sheets capacity, that works out at £0.08 per 8x10 sheet (nominal capacity gives £0.03 per sheet). The stop bath will cost an additional £0.01 and the fixer £0.05 (using Ilford chemicals). A total of £0.14 per sheet for chemicals at worst (and at best £0.09).

In comparison, each sheet of 8x10 FB paper costs approximately £1.25.

This is my kind of argument. Look at some numbers. Thanks for posting that.