Ilford Multigrade Dev. replinishing

[baritato]

Hi.
Have any of you tried to replenish the Ilford multigrade dev?
The solution has a normal working dilution of 1 + 9 and, working in the darkroom every two weeks I would try replenish working solution, prepared in the previous weeks, pull out 500cc of old solution and add 500cc 1+9 of fresh solution.
I might try the energy of the replenished solution with the evaluation of time of appearance of the first black on the paper.
What do you think about it?
Thank you!

Gianluca

 

[spijker]

If you store the 500 ml in an airtight bottle with no air, this should work well. I use a similar scheme; save 1liter in a PET bottle and add 0.5 liter fresh dilution for each printing session. It saves on developer going down the drain into the environment.

 

[baritato]

If you store the 500 ml in an airtight bottle with no air, this should work well. I use a similar scheme; save 1liter in a PET bottle and add 0.5 liter fresh dilution for each printing session. It saves on developer going down the drain into the environment.

Hi thank you for reply.
So with this scheme if i use 1 liter of working solution, the next session i have to eliminate half of old solution and add half of fresh.
But if my working solution is two liters i have to replenish with one liter of fresh solution.
Thanks.

 

[M Carter]

I don't think there's a reliable "schedule" for this - it's going to depend on how many prints you made, how much time in an open tray, and how it's stored.

I always test my dev and fixer at the start of a session - in the dark make a strip from the paper you'll print with that day, mark it with, say, 1 inch segments, soak it in water for a few seconds, and then into the fix - try 30 seconds for each marked line (dip it deeper into the fix so you'll have a strip with areas of 0, 30, 60, 90, 120 seconds marked with lines). Then wash the strip and turn the room lights on. Make sure it's exposed well and then into the dev.

After it develops, check the strip - the 0 seconds fixed edge (which you were likely holding the strip by) should be the deepest black the dev. can provide. The other sections will tell you the minimum fixing time (look for the first clean section and double that time to be safe). If the black looks weak, your dev needs a bump.

If you can obtain Liquidol developer, it's really great stuff, seems to store much better and last longer (it was designed for deep blacks and longer life).

I store my used solution in tight bottles and a squirt of butane on top.

 

[baritato]

Thanks Carter,
A very interesting test for evaluation of dev's and fix energy at same time. Surely i'll try it.
I use Fomabrom variant FB, and with fresh 1+9 Ilford multigrade at 20° celsius, the time of appearance of first black is normally ten sec. The the dev continues for total two min.
Every session print, at maximun i make 15 prints 20X30cm with two liters of fresh working solution.
I think that if with my "replenished working solution" i'll have, for example, an increase of 20% of the time of black's appearance, i'll just to increase for same percentage the total time of dev. i store my working solution and pure chemestry in tight bottles.
Ciao Ciao

 

[Anon Ymous]

You can use some "old brown" developer mixed with fresh, but keep in mind that you'll probably get a tonal shift to warmer, possibly olive green tones. I've tried that with both Ilford Multigrade and Agfa Neutol WA (the last one being quite a dark orange brown solution) and I always got a tonal shift. This may not be a problem for you and it might be corrected with toning in dilute selenium toner, but it's something that you should consider. Anyway, it doesn't hurt to try...

 

[Harman Tech Service]

Hi,
I would agree with the suggestion above from Michael R that there are other issues than just activity. The build up of bromide as a development by-product will not only restrain development but could also affect the image colour. Multigrade developer was designed without replenishment in mind so it is potentially variable with use and oxidation after replenishment. Without replenishment one litre of 1+9 dilution is good for 100 8x10" sheets of paper.
The fact sheet is at: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2011427123181979.pdf

David.

 

[Ian Grant]

One reason Ilford introduced Multigrade developer was to give consistent colour to the tones at different contrasts so replenishment is not ideal, it isn't with any print developer used for tray processing. It's false economy.

I work almost exclusively with warm tone papers and there's a very definite increase in warmth from the developer towards the end of a session. Developers are quite cheap compared to the cost of paper so there's no point in taking risks.

If you do want to use a more economic system then a Nova slot processor where there's very little aerial oxidation is the best option.

Ian

 

[baritato]

Hi,
I would agree with the suggestion above from Michael R that there are other issues than just activity. The build up of bromide as a development by-product will not only restrain development but could also affect the image colour. Multigrade developer was designed without replenishment in mind so it is potentially variable with use and oxidation after replenishment. Without replenishment one litre of 1+9 dilution is good for 100 8x10" sheets of paper.
The fact sheet is at: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2011427123181979.pdf

David.

Thank you.
So i could try with 1+14 diluite working solution. Do you think tris diluition could be better for tonal range control or it's provided for chepest use of dev?
Thanks.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

One reason Ilford introduced Multigrade developer was to give consistent colour to the tones at different contrasts so replenishment is not ideal, it isn't with any print developer used for tray processing. It's false economy.

The exception that I know of is Ethol LPD. It works like a charm replenished.

From a gallon kit, use 1/3 gallon and dilute 1+2 with water for a gallon of working solution.
Take the remaining 2/3 gallon and dilute 2+1 with water for a gallon of replenishing solution.
For each 30 8x10 prints (equivalent), replenish 300ml. Top up working solution to a full gallon at the end of the printing session, as needed.
When there is no more replenishing solution left, mix the new working solution 1+2 with old developer instead of water.
Repeat.

I started using Ethol LPD like this in about 2005. There is still some of that first batch of LPD in my existing working solution. I have gone through many dozens of gallon kits since then, and it always works extremely well. Even when I haven't printed for several months I just pour the developer into the tray and it works just like last time.

Recently I bought some Ilford MG developer because I ran out of LPD, and I tried replenishing it. I mix a 2 liter working solution at 1+9, and next time I printed I used 1 liter of the old developer, mixed with 1 liter of fresh developer, so discarded half. I could not tell a difference one print to the next, but I don't expect that to hold up long term. I was doing contact sheets so it didn't really matter; that's why I decided to experiment.

 

[spijker]

One reason for me to replenish is that I never get even close to the max capacity of the developer of the equivalent of 100 sheets of 8x10 in one printing session (usually about 3 hours). I doubt that I get to 20. So I'd be ditching developer that's still 80% unused if I make a full batch of fresh dilution for each printing session. As there's also oxidation while the developer sits in the tray, my thought is that the 2/3 old + 1/3 new replenish scheme compensates sufficiently for the oxidation and 20% usage of the previous print session. Since I use less than 1/3 of the capacity and I throw out 1/3 in quantity, I doubt that I'll have a bromide build-up over time. If I haven't printed for a long time, I usually start with an all new batch. For me it's not trying to save money but to use resources efficiently and thereby reduce waste/pollution (chemicals down the drain, packaging, manufacturing, transport). I haven't tested this method exhaustively but a comparison between prints was that I couldn't notice a difference between the prints from 100% fresh or replenished developer.