Ilford MGIV Paper "Speed"

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aaronmichael

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Was just wondering if anyone happened to know the speed of glossy Ilford VC fiber paper when used in a camera. I've shot Arista fiber paper and I rate that at ISO 20 but I know it varies from brand to brand. I'd do a test but I'm going to be using 11x14 paper for the negative and wouldn't want to waste it on speed tests. Figured I'd ask here first. Any information would be great, thanks.
 
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aaronmichael

aaronmichael

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Interesting that there are two stops of difference between you guys' answers. You're both talking about fiber paper, correct? I'll be using it in a pinhole camera if that makes any difference but I don't think it would.
 

Photo Engineer

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I get about the same speed from FB as RC.

Remember that film contrast is 0.6 and paper contrast is nominally 2.5. This takes some understanding to get the right placement of the image, and also the VC nature of the paper makes contrast change with color.

PE
 

Mark Fisher

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I never tested for the ideal EI so I could be 2 stops off. I developed by inspection using film strength developer until it looked about right to my eye.
 

Joe VanCleave

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The spectrum of the light has a lot to do with your measured "speed," since graded paper is UV/blue sensitive only, and multigrade also has a bit of green sensitivity, but is also contrast-sensitive to the color of light.

I've also found that for paper being used as an in-camera negative media, you want to develop to completion in order to get adequate highlight detail without a mottled and streaked appearance. This differs from negative film which, within limits, can be given various development times in order to affect the resulting contrast.

For control of contrast in high-key sunlight I've taken to using grade 2 paper rather than multigrade, since it's much less contrast sensitive to the color of light. I also apply a preflash exposure to the paper, to increase shadow detail and therefore further tame the otherwise excessive contrast.

I've found it also wise to apply consistent developer dilution and temperature when developing paper as an in-camera negative; this helps to reduce process variability.

~Joe

Here's a recent example of Arista's grade 2 paper, post-flashed just prior to development (works about the same as preflashing), shot in an 8x10 pinhole camera at the City of Rocks state park in southwestern New Mexico. I rate this paper at an exposure index of 12, and develop it in Ilford Universal paper developer mixed 1+15 at 68f. I metered the brightest part of the boulder and placed it at +1 stop; exposure time was around 35 seconds, IIRC.
5542411117_3b0a2eec0f_b.jpg
 
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aaronmichael

aaronmichael

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Great shot. I've never tried preflashing (or postflashing) to reduce the contrast before but I do use a yellow filter in front of my pinhole and try to shoot in relatively uniform shade. I would use graded paper if I had any but all I have at the moment is VC and probably won't be needing any graded anytime soon. Does pre/post flashing increase the speed of the paper? I think I'll end up just having to do some tests to see what I should rate it at. I'll cut a piece off of a 11x14 sheet and use it in a smaller pinhole camera. Either that or start off using PE's suggestion of ISO 25 and go from there.
 

Joe VanCleave

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Thanks for the feedback.

I've found that pre-(or post-) flashing doesn't increase the speed (it hardly affects highlight density at all, since each step in the exposure scale is a logarithmic increase) but rather increases the shadow density, helping to effectively reduce contrast.

I'd be curious to know your average exposure times in bright light when using a yellow filter with MG paper. From what others have told me, you end up with about the same speed, or sometimes even slower, than when using unfiltered grade 2 paper. I've heard that unfiltered MG paper speeds can approach 25, but the major caveat is extreme contrast, not really suitable for fine tonal range pictorial photography (IMO).

I've taken to purchasing my grade 2 RC paper exclusively for use as in-camera paper negative media, rather than using whatever print paper I happen to have on hand. I've been shooting paper for so many years, and have refined my process sufficiently, that I consider it a standard material to use in LF and pinhole box cameras. I use MG-FB paper strictly for output to contact prints.

~Joe
 
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Joe VanCleave

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One more image. I've found in my experience that the grade 2 RC paper I use has virtually no reciprocity failure. This example image was metered under dim shadow lighting deep in a narrow canyon in the Catwalk, in southwestern NM near Glenwood. The calculated exposure from the meter was 20 minutes, which I exposed without any additional reciprocity correction. FYI, I use the metered time for F128 on my meter (the highest aperture value on the meter) and multiply by a correction factor to adjust the reading for the aperture of my pinhole camera. The tones came out just perfect. The dagger-like hotspot along the top left edge is sunlight slowly creeping down the opposite wall of the canyon during the lengthy exposure. 8x10 pinhole box camera.


-Joe

5542881726_619336db59_b.jpg
 
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aaronmichael

aaronmichael

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I've been adding 2/3 of a stop when using a yellow filter but I think it should be more like a full stop. I haven't tried doing a comparison yet between filtered and unfiltered. I noticed though that on a couple shots I took, the sky didn't get blown out when I used a yellow filter - but I didn't take two shots (filtered and unfiltered) to compare the difference. Here's one that I shot and I think it was about a 7 minute exposure, unfiltered. I shot it with Arista VC Fiber paper, rated at ISO 20, and took a meter reading of the scene from my SLR:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronmichael/5533307599/

I know that this one was filtered, but it was shot with Kentmere RC VC paper rather than fiber. I don't even know if I compensated for the filter on this one - exposure time was a little over 10 minutes:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronmichael/5475648370/in/photostream/

I've been slowly learning about what works best with paper negatives (with pinhole) and so in my earlier images I wasn't applying all my current knowledge when shooting. When I first got into it, I was just purely guessing exposure times and then going into the darkroom and developing and then going back out to take another shot based on the first one. And was shooting in really high contrast areas/scenes. Then I got a rough feel for how long exposure times should be. Then I got a formula for calculating exposure times, which is amazing. I'm not sure if I got that from you or from another user. Then I learned about the yellow filter reducing contrast and shooting in low contrasty scenes. Then I learned that the paper needs a little exposure compensation when using a filter. Lastly, I've been using fiber paper rather than RC for the negatives because it's more durable than RC.
 

StephenT

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Old thread I know, but I have been experimenting with MGIV and Ilford's Digital RC in a 4x5. With a yellow filter, my results seem to indicate that, as with PE, an ISO speed of 25 is about right for both emulsions.

Of course, it doesn't hurt to bracket, either!


I've used ISO 25 in daylight.

PE
 

Ko.Fe.

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Strange. I have used it as 4x5 as well indoors, outdoors. Fresh paper. Clean lens.
No filters. Rated at ISO 5.

Ilford Multigrade IV RC Deluxe 3 1/2x5 photo paper in Calumet 4x5 View Camera.
Caltar 165mm f6.3 lens.


Underwood by Ko.Fe., on Flickr
 

MartinP

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There is a useful amount of information to go with Ilford's own pinhole cameras. Perhaps this calculator would be handy? There are further tips on the Ilford Photo website ie. meaning Harman-Technologies, not the Swiss company with only a historical connection to the British manufacturer.
 

RalphLambrecht

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Was just wondering if anyone happened to know the speed of glossy Ilford VC fiber paper when used in a camera. I've shot Arista fiber paper and I rate that at ISO 20 but I know it varies from brand to brand. I'd do a test but I'm going to be using 11x14 paper for the negative and wouldn't want to waste it on speed tests. Figured I'd ask here first. Any information would be great, thanks.

I epose it at ISO3 with a light-yellow filter toget tonal-rich paper negatives;works well(no overexposed highlights):smile:
 
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