Ilford MGIV FB with a little warmth

[StigHagen]

Hi!

I really like the quality of the Ilford MGIV FB paper. Also I find it cheaper than Adox MCC in Europe. BUT I like the hint of warmth in Adox MCC in Dektol better than Ilford. I just wondered if I could get some similar result with the Ilford paper using another developer than Dektol?

Stig

 

[Adrian Twiss]

You could try Agfa Neutol WA. Also check out the formula section of www.unblinkingeye.com for home brew warm tone developers.

 

[markbarendt]

Ethol LPD

It's adjustable too!

 

[Dan Henderson]

If you like MGIV you should love MGWT. Especially in a warm toned developer. I like the subtle warmth of that combination.

 

[Mike Wilde]

Source some pottasium bromide. Make an about 10% w/w solution ie 10g KBr in 100g (ie 100mL) H20.

Then see how you like adding about 10-30mL of this solution into about L of 1:2 Dektol.

You will have to print a little longer, and then develop perhaps out to 3' from a customary 2', but things will definitlely warm up.

 

[StigHagen]

If you like MGIV you should love MGWT. Especially in a warm toned developer. I like the subtle warmth of that combination.

I will try that paper Maybe in Dektol it will be just perfect...

 

[hpulley]

Of all things I find Ilford Multigrade 1+9 developer, a little bit long in the tooth, say a day old or so makes the development time longer, at least 3-4 minutes, sometimes longer and this gives me nice subtle warm brown tones to my Ilford MGIV FB paper. The developer will be a bit dark in the tray, so if I want clean prints I print them right away with freshly mixed Multigrade 1+9 then when my printing session is done I save the developer and about a day or day and a half later I find it is slower and warmer.

 

[Dan Henderson]

Source some pottasium bromide. Make an about 10% w/w solution ie 10g KBr in 100g (ie 100mL) H20.

Then see how you like adding about 10-30mL of this solution into about L of 1:2 Dektol.

You will have to print a little longer, and then develop perhaps out to 3' from a customary 2', but things will definitlely warm up.

I thought that shorter developing times were better for warm tones. I add 15 ml of KBr to my PQ developer and develop for 1.5 minutes when I want warm tone. On the other end, I add Benzotriazole to the developer and develop for 3.5 minutes when I want cold tones. Am I going about it wrong?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hi!

I really like the quality of the Ilford MGIV FB paper. Also I find it cheaper than Adox MCC in Europe. BUT I like the hint of warmth in Adox MCC in Dektol better than Ilford. I just wondered if I could get some similar result with the Ilford paper using another developer than Dektol?

Stig

A minute or two in polysulfide toner will give you what you want!

 

[Ian Grant]

A minute or two in polysulfide toner will give you what you want!

Will it ?

It's a different approach and the image colour wouldn't necessarily be that close.

The inherent warmth of a "Warmtone paper" like MCC can't be duplicated with a paper like MGIV FB, the closest you could get would be to use a Pyrocatechin re-developing toner.

Ian

 

[nworth]

The Adox paper looks a lot like Ilford MGWT developed in a cold tone developer, but the Ilford gives somewhat better blacks and shadow detail.

 

[Rich Ullsmith]

Sepia. Mix your own and titrate to taste, Stig. It's cheap, and the MGIV will respond.

 

[ooze]

Sepia. Mix your own and titrate to taste, Stig. It's cheap, and the MGIV will respond.

That's what I do if I want some warmth in MGIV. I place the print in highly dilute bleach for a rather short duration, so that the bleaching action is almost imperceptiple. The subsequent thiocarbamide toning puts a warm tone into the print which I find attractive in its own way. You would need to experiment a little with your bleach dilution and time in the bleach.

Still, it's an additional step in the process. And the result is not the same as what you get with MGIV WT.

 

[2F/2F]

I will try that paper Maybe in Dektol it will be just perfect...

Get your pocketbook ready for the hit before you do that. It is an outrageously expensive paper. I'd say to invest in a scale, a bunch of powdered chemicals, and a book of recipes, though you ought to at least try the paper once. It is gorgeous, and only slightly warm, which I like.

 

[StigHagen]

The Adox paper looks a lot like Ilford MGWT developed in a cold tone developer, but the Ilford gives somewhat better blacks and shadow detail.

If that is true...I guess Ilford MGWT must be the most versatile quality paper on the market?

 

[StigHagen]

A minute or two in polysulfide toner will give you what you want!

Interesting, but I´ve read it has a terrible fume. Will it work together with Selenium toning? Or is it not nescesarry with selenium toning together wtih Polysulfide?

What about Ilford MGIV WT in Selenium, is there a point where the paper cools down?

 

[Doc W]

What about Ilford MGIV WT in Selenium, is there a point where the paper cools down?

I am not nearly as experienced as the other posters in here but one of my standard combinations is MGIV WT in Dektol and toned in selenium 1:9 for about 3-5 minutes. After 4 minutes, the purple tone will become very noticeable which some people do not like.

MGIV (non WT) does not respond all that much to selenium but the toner WILL remove that slightly olive tint you get with MGIV.

 

[Ian Grant]

With a warm tone paper Selenium takes the image colour from a greenish brown to a reddish brown it doesn't make an image look cooler just different.

Ian

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Will it ?

It's a different approach and the image colour wouldn't necessarily be that close.

The inherent warmth of a "Warmtone paper" like MCC can't be duplicated with a paper like MGIV FB, the closest you could get would be to use a Pyrocatechin re-developing toner.

Ian

The OP did not ask for a duplication. He asked for 'a hint of warmth' and wondered how to get 'similar' results. I stand by my post but slightly correct it to:

A minute or two in polysulfide toner may give you what you want!

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Interesting, but I´ve read it has a terrible fume. Will it work together with Selenium toning? Or is it not nescesarry with selenium toning together wtih Polysulfide? ...

Yes, polysulfide toners produce toxic hydrogen sulfide gas, as well as the offensive odor that goes along with it. But when direct toning is preferred, they are highly recommended for use on their own or in combination with a selenium toner, as long as adequate ventilation is available.

You can use both toners together or in sequence for a slight split-toning effect, whereby with MGIV, the polysulfide warms midtones and highlights and the selenium cools the shadows. I use it for all my nudes for its aesthetic and archival properties.

 

[darkroom_rookie]

PQ universal worked well for me, the print definitely seemed warmer than what I got from Multigrade developer. And bizarrely, when I used no safelight at all before fixing, it was even a bit warmer than with a (DIY,15W,Rubylith and tested) safelight. Does it make sense?

 

[Mike Wilde]

I thought that shorter developing times were better for warm tones. I add 15 ml of KBr to my PQ developer and develop for 1.5 minutes when I want warm tone. On the other end, I add Benzotriazole to the developer and develop for 3.5 minutes when I want cold tones. Am I going about it wrong?

No, right approach, in that time in developer affects tone to some degree, as well as also contrast a bit. But add in a restrianer, and the overall development action slows down.

 

[hpulley]

How are the fumes for selenium toner? At 1+3? 1+9? 1+20 any difference? Is an open window with a fan enough for selenium toning or will I need a hood?

 

[Anon Ymous]

How are the fumes for selenium toner? At 1+3? 1+9? 1+20 any difference? Is an open window with a fan enough for selenium toning or will I need a hood?

I haven't tried strong dilutions like 1+3, but it will probably smell ammonia. At 1+9 there's a barely perceptible smell, at least for me (mind you, I'm a smoker, so my sense of smell is somewhat impaired). At 1+20 there's nothing to smell. That's for Kodak's RST, other toners might differ. If you find the smell objectionable, then some ventilation would be good, but keep in mind that it can also be done outdoors and there's no need for safelights. Actually, you want adequate lighting, in order to assess how much it has progressed.

 

[hpulley]

Thanks. I did a search and it seems like the fumes aren't really the bad part for selenium. I already use Ilford Rapid Fixer and Heico Permawash, both of which are ammonium based so that sharp smell will likely be familiar. I will wear the usual gloves and goggles.