Ilford MG IV RC: Black is not black

[Kirk Keyes]

Fixer has little or nothing to do with deepening blacks.

My tests has shown that extended fixing times will not only bleach highlights of prints as most people are aware, but it also bleaches the blacks.

Use glossy paper if you want maximum blacks. You will never get as dense of blacks from matte or semigloss surfaces as you will with glossy.

Kirk - www.keyesphoto.com

 

[Ole]

On the other hand, the most convincing black (not necessarily the darkest) I've seen is on the un-coated Bergger paper - the raw paper surface makes a velvet'y tone unlike anything else.

 

[Nigel Harley]

I use Ilford MGIV RC - Pearl for 2mins @ 20degC with Ilford Multigrade mixed 1+19... ie 200ml in 2lt water. I get very good balcks. However a higher temperature of the developer can make the print go 'muddy'. All is well the other way down to about 15degC. My darkroom is in a shed and in the summer I can only print in the early morning due to keeping the developer at 20degC... any hotter - NO BLACK

tip... I always used to leave a thermometer in the dev tray. Since then I have moved over to a Nova Slot processor... vast improvement on repeatability.

good luck. Nigel

 

[Leon]

First off, before you go trying different papers, chemicals etc., have you done a safelight test? As fogging of the paper from light leaks or from an unsafe safelight can result in greys instead of blacks.

Mike surely you mean this will result in greys instead of highlights? this shouldnt affect the depth of achievable black?

 

[argus]

with Ilford Multigrade mixed 1+19... ie 200ml in 2lt water

That would be 1+9 if I remember math class well!

1+19 for 2 Liters = 100ml of developer + 1900ml water.

G

 

[Nigel Harley]

That would be 1+9 if I remember math class well!

1+19 for 2 Liters = 100ml of developer + 1900ml water.

G

ooops.... typo error. You are correct I use 1+9 for 2mins.

thanks, Nigel

 

[Leolo]

I used to have the same problem with this paper and developer. Switching to Dektol 1+2 solved the problem. When comparing prints from both developers the difference is really visible, the blacks on the prints developed with Multigrade seem more charcoal than black.

Phil

 

[gareth harper]

For what it is worth here's how I do things,

MGIV RC Pearl developed in Ilford Multigrade 1+9 for 34 seconds at 30 degrees C, 10 second stop (again at 30C) and 15 seconds fix in Ilford Rapid fix at 1+4 dillution (again 30C).
That's how I do my 10x8 work and portfolio prints, I like to print fast.

Bigger prints for display are same dillutions but always fresh chemicals and it's 1 minute dev, 15 seconds stop, then 30 seconds fix.

The key to getting good deep blacks with MGIV RC Pearl is strong warm selenium. Try KRS 1+4 at 25 degrees C, 2 to 5 minutes depending on how fresh it is should do the trick. You should have blacks as dark as coal. I always use selenium with MGIV. You should also see the horrible green tinge change to a suttle blue hue, lovely.

Don't use the glossy RC, it's fine for contact sheets, test strips and work
prints but that's it. The pearl is much much nicer, and with strong KRS you will get those deep blacks you lust for.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Sorry for jumping in late...

...don't know if this helps or not.

I noticed while I was printing yesterday, that when I used Fine Art Photo Supply Perfecta D paper developer, that finally my Agfa RC Classic (matte finish) displayed a rich black as opposed to the somewhat weak black that Agfa Neutol presented with the same batch of paper.
Perhaps just playing around with different paper developers would yield better blacks with the Ilford MG IV? Just food for thought.
I thought the Perfecta D worked absolutely stunningly, with rich creamy tones, with a very strong maximum black, yet great separation in subtle tones.
I haven't tried the finer developers, such as Amidol yet, but of the four different developers I've worked with so far: Perfecta D, Neutol, Dektol, and one Ilford product, this was the easiest and best to work with.

- Thom

 

[Peter Schrager]

Zonal

If you like Agfa you must try the Zonal Pro Warmtone paper developer. Now I only used it with fiber but it is a great combination. Only problem is it oxidizes rather rapidly. Sorry-don't mean to hijack thread-just a worthy combo.
Best, Peter

 

[gnashings]

I was very interested in all the thoughts in this thread... so much to learn!

I am a beginner in thhis field, and have used Dektol - I found that it gives really nice blacks - but "washes out" when it gets warmer... Now, I noticed that one of you prints at 30 deg C... How would my Dektol react to that?

I don't know if my standards are quite as high as some of our more distinguished (and experienced!) coleagues here, but I think black is something we can all get a pretty good grip on - if a print has nice highlights and and greys in between and the black is as black as a velvet - I think its pretty black! True, the gloss seems to give an impression of an almost "wet" finish, which gives the black an appearance of more depth - but not necessarily make it any blacker.

Just a thought - in film making, most of the things that are meant to appear black (ie the Batmobile ) are actually... a deep purple!(no pun intended...) Perhaps that says something about the way the human eye percieves the complete lack of colour.(Or more likely, how film lighting and camera gear work)

 

[gareth harper]

Hello gnashings,

It's me that prints a 30 degrees C.
I use a Nova 12x16 inch fibre processor. The reason I have one of these is simply space, my darkroom is 5x6 feet. Having said that I'd never go back to trays for general work. The Nova Fibre has a water jacket so you can control the temp of the chemicals. So for my 10x8 RC work I trun up the temp so I can print rapidly. I'm told there is little or no penalty in processing RC at higher temps. I do all my larger prints and all Fibre work at 20 degrees C. Fibre does not like to be processed quickly at higher tempertuers.

I don't know how Dektol would react. The Ilford Multigrade developer I use is a very tollerant developer.

I find the key to deep blacks with MGIV RC is strong warm selenium. It really does drop the shadows, while the blacks go deep deep black.