Ilford Hypam vs Rapid Fixer

[138S]

Ok so I’m thinking of pulling the trigger on a 5L bottle of Hypam and also Multigrade developer. If I was looking at using both of these in say 6 -8months would the best way to store them just be in the 5 litre containers they come in or perhaps a better idea to decant them into smaller 500ml bottles to reduce oxygen contact and use as needed?

You may use Tetenal Protectan spray, or simple butane, as it's denser than air it makes a protective layer over the liquid, so even if you don't displace all air in the bottle it works.

Of course you may use smaller bottles, I'd use glass bottles if available. Also "recycled" soft drink plastic bottles for soda/coke/etc are suitable because they are made with barrier effect plastic to contain CO2 under pressure, but if reusing beberage containers then label it permanently well with skull and bones, one never knows how tasty can be developer for some

Coke/Fanta type plastic bottles are "elastic" so you may use two 2.5 bottles and one or two 1L bottles to keep always developer/etc with no air.

In the long term you may use darkroom Air-Evac bottles and glass bottles, soda bottles are good to start.
(https://www.amazon.com/AP-Reduction-Air-Evac-Darkroom-Chemical/dp/B07GT8QK1L)

 

[tezzasmall]

You may use Tetenal Protectan spray, or simple butane, as it's denser than air it makes a protective layer over the liquid, so even if you don't displace all air in the bottle it works.

In the long term you may use darkroom Air-Evac bottles and glass bottles, soda bottles are good to start.
(https://www.amazon.com/AP-Reduction-Air-Evac-Darkroom-Chemical/dp/B07GT8QK1L)

I second the use of Tetenal spray. It's not that cheap, but a tin lasts for a VERY long time by an average user.

If you decide to decant the liquids into smaller bottles, I would NOT recommend the squeezy bottles in the link. Have a search about the if still not convince, but most peoples views on them are that they are not fit for purpose, either through the type of plastic that they're made of or because of the creases in the bottle let air in.

I can't vouch for coke bottles etc. having not used them.

I buy in 5 litre bottles as it's much better value. Personally, I bought a range of bottles in various sizes, from one litre down to 100ml, to keep both dev, fixer and other liquids in. They seem to be made from the same material as the liquids come in. Easy to track down I'm sure. They're well priced, will last well and especially in tandem with the gas, will keep the liquids fresh. My liquids have stayed fresh for close to ten years.

Terry S

 

[MattKing]

Stay away from those "Air-Evac" bottles.
The idea appears to be great, but they are nearly impossible to fully clean, and their weak point is the folds themselves - they can end up allowing more oxygen penetration than a soda (pop) bottle.
Whatever bottles you use, pay close attention to the caps, and how well they seal and re-seal. Avoid metal caps - they tend to rust.

 

[138S]

Stay away from those "Air-Evac" bottles.
The idea appears to be great, but they are nearly impossible to fully clean, and their weak point is the folds themselves - they can end up allowing more oxygen penetration than a soda (pop) bottle.
Whatever bottles you use, pay close attention to the caps, and how well they seal and re-seal. Avoid metal caps - they tend to rust.

Those acordion bottles fueled funny debates

Perhaps "neither as good as the manufacturers would claim, nor as bad as their detractors would have us believe".

I've kept Xtol in those bottles for 6 months without a problem, but it would be interesting to make a DIY Oxygen permeability test measuring oxydation of a test substance.

There are very cheap plastics tat have very low Oxygen Permeability Coefficient, see this table:



PET is good but the right PVC kind (unplasticized) is almost as good, and bare Saran ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saran_(plastic) ) is extraordinary, with an Oxygen Permeability Coeff. that is 1/8 of the PET one.

It would be really weird if those acordions were not well made, because the right plastic to make them may cost only a few cents. Probably time ago there were bad products with very thin plastic, but the ones we see today should be really good.

It is true that the acordions are not easy to clean, but if we usually use the same chem then those bottles don't require an extensive cleaning until we fill with another chem kind.

For long term storage with soda PET bottles what I do is wrapping the bottles with kitchen plastic film (Saran), as I guess it reinforces the barrier effect a lot.

My view is that "acordions or not" is about a personal preference (cleaning, etc), but they are technically OK, IMO.

Looks and OOT but, answering an OP question:

Ok so I’m thinking of pulling the trigger on a 5L bottle of Hypam and also Multigrade developer. If I was looking at using both of these in say 6 -8months would the best way to store them just be in the 5 litre containers they come in or perhaps a better idea to decant them into smaller 500ml bottles to reduce oxygen contact and use as needed?

 

[koraks]

It is true that the acordions are not easy to clean, but if we usually use the same chem then those bottles don't require an extensive cleaning until we fill with another chem kind.

Well talk after you've scratched your head about where the countless little spots on your negatives come from and then realize you've been using one of those bottles to store a few generations of fixer.

 

[MattKing]

PET is good but the right PVC kind (unplasticized) is almost as good, and bare Saran ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saran_(plastic) ) is extraordinary, with an Oxygen Permeability Coeff. that is 1/8 of the PET one.

Sadly, Saran Wrap isn't what it used to be. Courtesy of Wikipedia:

Formulation change to polyethylene[edit]
Today's Saran Wrap is no longer composed of PVDC in the United States, due to cost, processing difficulties, and environmental concerns with halogenated materials[1], and is now made from polyethylene.[11] However, polyethylene has a higher oxygen permeability, which in turn affects food spoilage prevention. For example, at 23 °C and 95% relative humidity polyvinylidene chloride has an oxygen permeability of 0.6 cm3 μm m−2 d−1 kPa−1 while low-density polyethylene under the same conditions has an oxygen permeability of 2000 cm3 μm m−2 d−1 kPa−1.[12] For that reason, packaging for the meat industry still may use PVDC containing films, as a barrier layer.[13]

 

[cliveh]

Hypam fixer is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Vaughn]

Hypam fixer is the best thing since sliced bread.

Last time I fixed with sliced bread my negatives were crummy.

 

[kevs]

I can't vouch for coke bottles etc. having not used them.

Terry S

They work very well for me; I store my ID-11, stock and 1:3 dilution in 500ml fizzy pop bottles for years since I don't dev much film these days. Just rinse them well and make sure the tops are airtight as some don't reseal perfectly. Squeezing out air is easy but I've noticed they keep the squashed shape if left for a few months or more.

I don't trust accordion bottles either. They're opaque so it's impossible to check for ozidation without opening, which kinda defeats the object. The folds make it difficult to label the bottle. Also, US$42 for three empty 1L bottles (link above) v. ~$3 for three full 1L pop bottles (free when empty!) = no brainer!

 

[138S]

Well talk after you've scratched your head about where the countless little spots on your negatives come from and then realize you've been using one of those bottles to store a few generations of fixer.

I get those spots in many ways

Recently I used some 20 years old bottles of fixer than came with an enlarger, I filtered out the sulphur with a coffee filter and I added two teaspoons of sodium sulfite per 1L working solution, no little spots.

You can generate sulphur in any container, but if using coke bottles you throw the bottles away often. A convenient solvent for sulphur is toluene, (be careful), I cleaned with it an acordion that came with destroyed fixer.

Well, sure, if one is prone to keep aged & destroyed fixer then better not using acordions for that, at least if not wanting to clean well the acordion.

 

[kevs]

Hypam fixer is the best thing since sliced bread.

I tried it once, it tasted awful, the cheese went soggy and it ruined my toaster.

 

[koraks]

The main problem I have with those accordeon bottles and any other opaque bottles is that it's so damn hard to tell if they're properly cleaned. I prefer clear glass and for some things plastic. But increasingly glass.

 

[138S]

The main problem I have with those accordeon bottles and any other opaque bottles is that it's so damn hard to tell if they're properly cleaned. I prefer clear glass and for some things plastic. But increasingly glass.

I agree, glass is the nicest choice, but it requires spraying some butane/protectan for not filled bottles.

Container choice is also a concern in general chemistry. Plastic contrainers are often desired to prevent accidents, in a lab soon or late a bottle falls to the ground and if it's glass in many cases this activates a "safety protocol" party of impressive size and loud music. A pro chemist told me that he broke a relatively inofensive bottle and ten people were involved in the "decontamination" protocol, beyond other side effects. Also shipping it's usually safer/cheaper with plastic, glass may require a more reinforced boxing.

Today plastics for chem can be very good...

OK... a darkroom (my case) filled with squeezed coke bottles looks like Pancho Villa's darkroom !!!