Ilford HP5+ in PMK Pyro

[kenj8246]

Hi, I'm a noob here other than lurking; normally on RFF where, it seems, most like to talk about cameras instead of using them.

Shot these classic cars in situ at Dick's Classic Garage in San Marcos TX. A not very well lit place, the shutter speeds required are very hard for me to handhold; I got lucky on these shots. Mamiya 7 and Fuji GA645. I used the developer bath on these after fixing just to see if I noticed any difference; jury is still out on that as I haven't used PMK enough to make a judgement about that.


1936 Chrysler Phaeton by kenj8246, on Flickr


Chevy convertible by kenj8246, on Flickr


Black Caddie by kenj8246, on Flickr


Studebaker by kenj8246, on Flickr

Kenny

 

[JW PHOTO]

The blacks are "black" and the whites are "white" that's for surer and everything else in between looks darn nice also. Pyro has done it's magic. It looks like you didn't have toooooo much coffee before going there. Some cameras are easier to hand-hold than others and I've always found the bigger/heavier the better for me. Of course, that's just me. JohnW

 

[kenj8246]

The blacks are "black" and the whites are "white" that's for surer and everything else in between looks darn nice also. Pyro has done it's magic. It looks like you didn't have toooooo much coffee before going there. Some cameras are easier to hand-hold than others and I've always found the bigger/heavier the better for me. Of course, that's just me. JohnW

Thanks John. I agree with you on the larger cameras being easier to handhold low SS. My keeper rate on these rolls was about 50%…I was trying to hold 1/8 second, not easy sometimes.

 

[J.Marks]

Very nice, they look very good. I've been using HP5 and PMK for some time and find the combo to be a very good marriage. Hand holding at 1/8 would be impossible for me but you nailed it. NICE work.

 

[gone]

Those look very good Ken. The lighting may have been low but it's pretty good light. The shots exhibit that beautiful tonality that MF can give compared to 35mm, although I can't imagine using a Mamiya 7 as my daily shooter. I'm a wimp when it comes to that. Spot on comment about the other website too. Gear, gear, gear!

I'm guessing that 1 and 4 were from the Mamiya? Whoops, I now see that your flickr link has them all listed as from the Mamiya.

 

[David Allen]

Thanks John. I agree with you on the larger cameras being easier to handhold low SS. My keeper rate on these rolls was about 50%…I was trying to hold 1/8 second, not easy sometimes.

For a number of years I have owned an ancient Bilora shoulder support (essentially a column that attaches to the tripod fitting with a bakelite curved support at the other end that you press on to your shoulder). I have found this invaluable for shooting at low shutter speeds and can be pretty sure that, at 1/8, the image will be sharp and vibration free. Oftentimes, I will expose two frames (to be on the safe side) and both are fine. It has helped me so much that I now use it all the time. It has freed me up from my previous use of a tripod meaning that I can spend much more time walking about looking for images without getting tired.

I am sure it would be pretty easy to make one and then keep in your bag if you are presented with a scene that requires such low shutter speeds.

Bests,

David
www.dsallen.de

 

[Axle]

I do <3 Pyro. Big fan of the developer myself.

 

[kenj8246]

Those look very good Ken. The lighting may have been low but it's pretty good light. The shots exhibit that beautiful tonality that MF can give compared to 35mm, although I can't imagine using a Mamiya 7 as my daily shooter. I'm a wimp when it comes to that. Spot on comment about the other website too. Gear, gear, gear!

I'm guessing that 1 and 4 were from the Mamiya? Whoops, I now see that your flickr link has them all listed as from the Mamiya.

I don't shoot everyday with the Mamiya...have other MF, as well. But it's a very nice camera and I wouldn't mind shooting it every day.


Kenny

 

[kenj8246]

For a number of years I have owned an ancient Bilora shoulder support (essentially a column that attaches to the tripod fitting with a bakelite curved support at the other end that you press on to your shoulder). I have found this invaluable for shooting at low shutter speeds and can be pretty sure that, at 1/8, the image will be sharp and vibration free. Oftentimes, I will expose two frames (to be on the safe side) and both are fine. It has helped me so much that I now use it all the time. It has freed me up from my previous use of a tripod meaning that I can spend much more time walking about looking for images without getting tired.

I am sure it would be pretty easy to make one and then keep in your bag if you are presented with a scene that requires such low shutter speeds.

Bests,

David
www.dsallen.de

I suppose I could adapt my old BushHawk if I really wanted to.

Kenny

 

[jeffreyg]

Nice. I too like PMK Pyro with HP5. I just had a thought that since many places will not permit a tripod, perhaps a monopod which might also be rejected but probably one of those small folding seats often seen at golf tournaments might be accepted. You could probably rig one of the Bogen gagets to the handle as a tripod. Limp a little to justify needing the seat.

One of my personal favorite images was also with a very slow shutter speed in a museum in Florence, Italy but I was able to brace myself against a wall.

Http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[kenj8246]

Nice. I too like PMK Pyro with HP5. I just had a thought that since many places will not permit a tripod, perhaps a monopod which might also be rejected but probably one of those small folding seats often seen at golf tournaments might be accepted. You could probably rig one of the Bogen gagets to the handle as a tripod. Limp a little to justify needing the seat.

One of my personal favorite images was also with a very slow shutter speed in a museum in Florence, Italy but I was able to brace myself against a wall.

Http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

I actually have a little three-legged camp stool that I've used successfully. The only problem with it is getting up and down. It's quite low and I'm getting 'a little long in the tooth' shall we say.

Kenny

 

[ROL]

Unless this thread is simply an excuse to show your images (scanned negatives or scanned prints?), the question you subtly posed seemed to be about the use of post fix developer bath. I develop 120 and sheet almost exclusively in PMK Pyro and stopped using the post many years ago with no regrets. I suggest you try it both ways and judge for yourself.

 

[kenj8246]

Unless this thread is simply an excuse to show your images (scanned negatives or scanned prints?), the question you subtly posed seemed to be about the use of post fix developer bath. I develop 120 and sheet almost exclusively in PMK Pyro and stopped using the post many years ago with no regrets. I suggest you try it both ways and judge for yourself.

Guilty as accused of showing my scanned images. As I said in the original post, I have mainly been over at RFF where most seem not to use their gear to make images. At least, not that they share often. I suppose I'm seeking approval/acceptance, call it what you will. With my initial foray into PMK being without using the post fix bath, I'm trying to establish whether it's worth the extra time needed. It is said that the long final wash enhances the stain; I have very bad tap water here in TX so I use the briefer Ilford wash with distilled water, as a consequence. If the post fix bath gets me out of the need for a long final wash, then that's a good thing. Make any sense?

Kenny

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Nice negatives. Unless you print the negatives on silver gelatin paper, I doubt you will see a difference between film that has been souped in developer post fixing and those that have not. Your pictures above prove that you have all the quality you need from your negatives.

If it's a practical matter due to water quality, then it's best to ask the question that way. Your use of distilled water makes sense, but you may not need distilled water through your entire washing cycle, you may only need it for the last step. Residual hypo testing is the only way to find out for sure.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I got in a brawl once about post-souping the neg in alkaline afterbath (or the PMK dev itself). I contended it affected printing, just like Gordon
H. originally explained, but then was told it doesn't do anything except build extra fbf, and that Hutchings himself has since changed his mind.
Turns out I was wrong . .. and the afterbath is redundant after all. One less step, so that actually turned out to be good news. This subject
is one which has been interjected into the "pyro wars" more recently, and if one can survive the give and take of all the nuances to this kind
of topic, we all learn something new from time to time. But PMK and HP5 is a marriage made in heaven.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I've been using PMK with Ilford FP4 a while back and the negs are beautiful. After fixing, I dunk them in the used developer. They have this greenish cast to them. They are sure sharp. But when I used PMK, I always have this fear of possible health issues from rumors of Ed Weston had Parkinson's disease from putting his hands in pyro developer. One photographer told me not to use it warmer than 75 degrees because inhaling the fumes is not good because pyro will be crossing the blood, brain barrier what ever that means. I haven't used my stock of PMK for a year and it went bad.

Right now, I'm using mostly XTOL and HC-110.

 

[jeffreyg]

I see no reason to put my hands into the chemistry but nitrile gloves and a mask along with an exhaust fan in the darkroom doesn't hurt. I am on well water which is rather mineral rich. Beside a home water system I have a cartridge filter in the line in my darkroom. The 5-micron carbon cartridge filters rust, silt and other noxious things.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[DREW WILEY]

PMK stores well in its unmixed respective A & B concentates for a long time, predictably, at least in glass bottles. Even lots of air in the bottle
doesn't seem to do anything to it. But yes, pyro is associated with neurological disease and is suspected of ruining more than one photographer's life. But they didn't use gloves back then, and there's really no excuse to get poisoned nowadays. Disposable nitrile gloves are
cheap.

 

[kenj8246]

...Disposable nitrile gloves are
cheap.

Indeed. And worth it. I use them with everything, not just PMK.

 

[CropDusterMan]

The whole "worry and stress" over PMK and other Pyro developers when it comes to safety is quite silly, for the simple
reason that if "used according to the chemical product label", it is a perfectly safe product. I have used pyro for years
and always follow the label recommended usage directions-after all, they are there for a reason! USER SAFETY.

As my usernames suggests, I am an aerial applicator-a cropduster, and I work with chemicals every day-with great care
for public and environmental safety, and basically, I take the same approach with photo chemicals. If the product label says
to "use nytrile gloves, wear a respirator when mixing, use a lab apron, use in a well ventilated area"...then DO IT. The public
have a general hysteria when it comes to chemicals, but if used according to the product label, they are perfectly safe.

I'm a little tired of people drawing comparisons to the days of the past, ie the Weston comment above-sure, they may not have
known or cared about safe handling practices in his and Adams day, just like the old pesticide videos show guys mixing and loading
chemicals into aircraft with no gloves or safety glasses...but you never see that nowadays! It's illegal. Read the label and follow
directions and you'll be just fine.

 

[StoneNYC]

The whole "worry and stress" over PMK and other Pyro developers when it comes to safety is quite silly, for the simple
reason that if "used according to the chemical product label", it is a perfectly safe product. I have used pyro for years
and always follow the label recommended usage directions-after all, they are there for a reason! USER SAFETY.

As my usernames suggests, I am an aerial applicator-a cropduster, and I work with chemicals every day-with great care
for public and environmental safety, and basically, I take the same approach with photo chemicals. If the product label says
to "use nytrile gloves, wear a respirator when mixing, use a lab apron, use in a well ventilated area"...then DO IT. The public
have a general hysteria when it comes to chemicals, but if used according to the product label, they are perfectly safe.

I'm a little tired of people drawing comparisons to the days of the past, ie the Weston comment above-sure, they may not have
known or cared about safe handling practices in his and Adams day, just like the old pesticide videos show guys mixing and loading
chemicals into aircraft with no gloves or safety glasses...but you never see that nowadays! It's illegal. Read the label and follow
directions and you'll be just fine.

Except the crop dusting part... Lol, ingesting it, not good even the legal stuff...

On our plants and in our water supply.

I like my apples with worms and brown spots thank you very much...

 

[CropDusterMan]

Stone, your reply is rather asinine...but, enjoy the worms.

 

[StoneNYC]

Stone, your reply is rather asinine...but, enjoy the worms.

Most of my replies are, if you see enough of my posts, you'll learn that it's best to usually ignore me, unless I seem like I'm actually trying to help, and then take it all with a grain of salt because I get confused a lot so my information isn't always totally on target but I try at least to help now and then.

 

[nocrop]

And back to our regularly-scheduled program . . .

Nice shots. If you're in central Texas lately, you had better be indoors. My all-time favorite combo is FP4+ with PMK Pyro--so luscious.

 

[StoneNYC]

And back to our regularly-scheduled program . . .

Nice shots. If you're in central Texas lately, you had better be indoors. My all-time favorite combo is FP4+ with PMK Pyro--so luscious.

Why indoors?