Ilford FP4 4x5 price increase...

[warden]

Just yesterday I saw that B&H raised the price of 4x5 FP4 100 sheets by 30$. It was 149$ and now it's 179$. Was this the price increase that was coming?

I wonder how long before HP5 goes up...

Yeah film is not going to get cheaper...

I would guess that short term prices will spike so if you need supplies and don't have them buy now if you can afford it. Waiting is probably not a good idea. Buying now serves both you and the manufacturer.

 

[Wallendo]

B&H prices always seem to bounce around a little. There are countless threads here on Photrio of people being concerned about B&H pricing.

Considering that B&H's warehouse is in New York City, their employees are likely to either be out on sick leave or in quarantine and they may have an increased cost of doing business for the next few months, so prices may fluctuate wildly on their site.

4x5 is a niche product. Considering how expensive digital cameras are in larger formats, I doubt many 4x5 users are going to go digital.

 

[removedacct1]

Prices are what they are. If you can't afford it now, then you almost certainly can't afford it 6 months from now, in which case you should consider changing how you make negatives. Medium format isn't a bad option at all. Paper negatives are significantly less expensive too. Another option might be wet plate collodion, if you can make use of it. Though the initial investment is a bit expensive (the silver nitrate is $$), once you have a basic setup, you can make glass 4x5 negatives for about 35 cents each. Given that there are alternatives (which even includes shooting less film, but continuing to use it) its pointless to lament what isn't within your power to change, and that includes price increases.

 

[MultiFormat Shooter]

Always price compare.

Whatever it takes to keep these products available!

Buying now serves both you and the manufacturer.

Prices are what they are....Given that there are alternatives (which even includes shooting less film, but continuing to use it) it's pointless to lament what isn't within your power to change, and that includes price increases.

+1,000 for all of the above! I'm just glad that we can still get film. I don't really "need" any film right now, but I may buy some, to do my (small) part to help. Luckily, I can still get out in nature and create some images, or try my hand at still life images.

 

[Sirius Glass]

+1,000 for all of the above! I'm just glad that we can still get film. I don't really "need" any film right now, but I may buy some, to do my (small) part to help. Luckily, I can still get out in nature and create some images, or try my hand at still life images.

Now more than ever we need to keep film stores alive and healthy. What would our world look like it after the pandemic there were no film stores or film distributors?

 

[JWMster]

So I guess the price bump means it's time to bite the bullet and buy a PhaseOne Achromatic digital bacK? At close to $40,000 per? Well... that's only 220 some boxes of 100 sheets of FP4+ away at this point. My math says, 220 boxes of 100 gets you 22,000 sheets. How many years does that work out to? Assuming you shoot 7 boxes a year... that'd be 31 years. Somehow... I'm betting the PhaseOne gets outdated, or more likely dies the usual digital death before 30 years run out. Would I love one of those PhaseOne backs? Sure. I've seen amazing shots off that thing posted. But the economics.... still make film look 1) infinitely portable, 2) reliable, and 3) inexpensive by comparison.

 

[pentaxuser]

I am not a 4x5 shooter but looking at the U.K.'s Morco price of £1.42 per sheet, quoted by Tom Kershaw, then at 20sq ins it still works out comparable to a 135 cassette. In fact if anything a 4x5 sheet works out slightly cheaper on a sq inch basis

pentaxuser

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I am not a 4x5 shooter but looking at the U.K.'s Morco price of £1.42 per sheet, quoted by Tom Kershaw, then at 20sq ins it still works out comparable to a 135 cassette. In fact if anything a 4x5 sheet works out slightly cheaper on a sq inch basis

pentaxuser

Yes. The Morco prices seem good on ILFORD sheet film. We are back to the old factor of UK suppliers having different prices and availability which can make a multi-item order a challenge...

 

[pentaxuser]

Yes. The Morco prices seem good on ILFORD sheet film. We are back to the old factor of UK suppliers having different prices and availability which can make a multi-item order a challenge...

Yes I agree which makes me look in askance when some explanations on pricing at the consumer end seem to suggest that whatever consumer pricing on items ends up as, it is no one's fault. There clearly is a large retailer margin built in to the prices we pay and retailers "play tunes" with their individual pricing for reasons that presumably makes sense to them and it is as it always has been a case of "caveat emptor"

Here however it would appear that unless Morco is selling 4x5 at a loss or break-even then maybe the price of 4x5 is in line with 135 film cassettes

pentaxuser

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Roberts Camera is the US importer and distributor for Ilford products. Amplis is the Canadian importer and distributor for Ilford products. Harman is the UK distributor for Ilford products. There are other Ilford importers and distributors around the world.
Each will have its own costs and distribution issues, independent of its FOB cost at the Ilford factory. And in these strange times, the possibility of extra distribution costs is very real.
A price change at one (large) retailer is not necessarily related in any way to a price change from the manufacturer.

this is very true. Although, Roberts typically does a price hike every April. It’d be nice if BH actually started charging closer to what the msrp is instead of barely charging a couple of percentage points above wholesale. Almost everybody compares BH prices and makes buying decisions based on what BH sells it for. Effectively giving it away at cost is not doing anybody any favors as it makes it nearly impossible for smaller players to even consider carrying many film products because they can’t sell it at BH prices and stay in business.

 

[Sirius Glass]

this is very true. Although, Roberts typically does a price hike every April. It’d be nice if BH actually started charging closer to what the msrp is instead of barely charging a couple of percentage points above wholesale. Almost everybody compares BH prices and makes buying decisions based on what BH sells it for. Effectively giving it away at cost is not doing anybody any favors as it makes it nearly impossible for smaller players to even consider carrying many film products because they can’t sell it at BH prices and stay in business.

Oh you want everyone to pay list price to satisfy your ego.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Oh you want everyone to pay list price to satisfy your ego.

no, not really. I’d like everybody to be willing to pay enough so that smaller sellers can carry products and actually stay in business. The alternative is only a very small number of very large business carry it. If you want to be at the mercy of a very small number of places where you can buy it, then by all means, buy it from only BH. It won’t be long and the number of places you can get it at all will only be available at a handful of places.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

No VAT taxes here in the US. With all the printing the US is doing, I suspect inflation is going to raise prices a lot for everything. I just hope we all stay healthy through this crisis so we can enjoy photography and just stay alive at whatever the price.

I will never fully understand why everything is so expensive in the UK.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I will never fully understand why everything is so expensive in the UK.

VAT

 

[MattKing]

no, not really. I’d like everybody to be willing to pay enough so that smaller sellers can carry products and actually stay in business. The alternative is only a very small number of very large business carry it. If you want to be at the mercy of a very small number of places where you can buy it, then by all means, buy it from only BH. It won’t be long and the number of places you can get it at all will only be available at a handful of places.

+1
B&H and their like are terrible for the retail photographic marketplace.
Which inevitably results in there being a paucity of sources for product and, in particular, product plus accompanying knowledge and service.
The market has an incredibly unhealthy focus on price, and an incredibly unhealthy avoidance of the value of price plus availability plus service.

 

[BradS]

I will never fully understand why everything is so expensive in the UK.

Might have something to do with it being an island nation....or, maybe, something to do with needing to pay for other services that are provided by the government for “free”.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

+1
B&H and their like are terrible for the retail photographic marketplace.
Which inevitably results in their being a paucity of sources for product and, in particular, product plus accompanying knowledge ans service.
The market has incredibly unhealthy focus on price, and an incredibly unhealthy avoidance of the value of price plus availability plus service.

yep. Unfortunately, that’s reality, and it’s not likely to change any time soon.

it’ll be pretty ironic when that day arrives that the only places you can find a reasonable selection of analog products is at places like BH. Then we’ll be seeing posts here bemoaning that film isn’t available at more places.

 

[MattKing]

Might have something to do with it being an island nation....or, maybe, something to do with needing to pay for other services that are provided by the government for “free”.

Or alternatively, provided by society as part of the social contract.
It is probably better to evaluate the value one receives for what one pays, rather than the philosophy underlying the "bill".
We pay both a national, VAT like tax plus a provincial sales tax on top of our purchases here in Canada (Alberta excepted) and I'm prepared to support it, as long as the money is spent wisely.
As a former business owner, I heartily support the VAT approach to sales taxation.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Prices are what they are. If you can't afford it now, then you almost certainly can't afford it 6 months from now, in which case you should consider changing how you make negatives. Medium format isn't a bad option at all. Paper negatives are significantly less expensive too. Another option might be wet plate collodion, if you can make use of it. Though the initial investment is a bit expensive (the silver nitrate is $$), once you have a basic setup, you can make glass 4x5 negatives for about 35 cents each. Given that there are alternatives (which even includes shooting less film, but continuing to use it) its pointless to lament what isn't within your power to change, and that includes price increases.

I just started 4x5 for the forst time. Just wanted to do something new but I doubt if I'll use all the advantages from LF that's available printing wise. Considering the virus , outfits that develope (I have no lab), it may be bad timing. But I still have my medium format camera equipment which is really very good over 35mm especially with a flat bed scanner at home.

 

[BradS]

Or alternatively, provided by society as part of the social contract.
It is probably better to evaluate the value one receives for what one pays, rather than the philosophy underlying the "bill".
We pay both a national, VAT like tax plus a provincial sales tax on top of our purchases here in Canada (Alberta excepted) and I'm prepared to support it, as long as the money is spent wisely.
As a former business owner, I heartily support the VAT approach to sales taxation.

I’m not passing judgement on the VAT nor on the country’s ah....social contract. I just get tired of people from countries with high taxes and socialized medicine, for example, bitching about and trying to not pay the tax and at the same time proclaiming how superior their health care system is, again, just for example....it’s like eBay buyers who ask sellers to falsify the customs forms so they can dodge their own country’s import duty/ tax. Sorry for ranting...but this kinda crap irritates me....and it has nothing to do with you personally...so again, I apologize.
Edit: I wish more people looked at it the way that you do.
Ok...end rant.

 

[odell1618photography]

+1
B&H and their like are terrible for the retail photographic marketplace.
Which inevitably results in there being a paucity of sources for product and, in particular, product plus accompanying knowledge and service.
The market has an incredibly unhealthy focus on price, and an incredibly unhealthy avoidance of the value of price plus availability plus service.

The issue is lack of local stores that carry film supplies. Hopefully that will change, however, the most prevalent buying pattern for anything in any marketplace
is via on line shopping.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

The issue is lack of local stores that carry film supplies. Hopefully that will change, however, the most prevalent buying pattern for anything in any marketplace
is via on line shopping.

the local walk-in retailers have to compete with BH. I can’t tell you how many sales I’ve lost because the customer came in, looked at the price, stated they would rather buy it from BH and walked out. This is even with a price difference of almost nothing. A box of 8x10 fp4? Four dollar price difference. Customer would rather buy it from BH and wait for it to show up over paying an extra 4 dollars and have it now. In that instance I could have matched BH and still made some money, however, a four dollar price difference on a relatively expensive box of film is almost nothing. That’s how out of whack the price sensitivity is.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Harman (Ilford) just announced a temporary factory closure due to the virus issue. B&H has long handled potential shortage issues by temporarily raising prices, sometimes by quite a bit. Once that particular film is abundant again, the prices go back down. This doesn't necessarily imply greed. They might just want to meter out their inventory so that at least something will be on hand for their serious customers, rather than tempting someone to buy it all out at once. What condition the respective economies will be like when things begin to normalize, I can't say; but difficult times and certain shortages are unquestionably still ahead. Right now, both people and the economy are in sheer survival mode, especially in NYC.

 

[MattKing]

That’s how out of whack the price sensitivity is.

We understand the price of everything, and the value of almost nothing.

 

[Sirius Glass]

the local walk-in retailers have to compete with BH. I can’t tell you how many sales I’ve lost because the customer came in, looked at the price, stated they would rather buy it from BH and walked out. This is even with a price difference of almost nothing. A box of 8x10 fp4? Four dollar price difference. Customer would rather buy it from BH and wait for it to show up over paying an extra 4 dollars and have it now. In that instance I could have matched BH and still made some money, however, a four dollar price difference on a relatively expensive box of film is almost nothing. That’s how out of whack the price sensitivity is.

In the suburban Washington DC are back in the 60's people would ask questions at EJ Korvettes where I sold cameras and then drive 30 or 40 miles to save $2 on a $150 camera.