Ilford fibre warmtone - washing question

[Sim2]

Hallo there,
A bit of a random one this but, does the colour of Ilford fibre-base warmtone paper change with the length of time of washing or the water temp?
Just washed some for 40 mins and am imagining that they seem cooler than when they went in!
Thoughts, experiences welcomed.

Sim2.

 

[dpurdy]

I don't know for sure in the last few years but previously if you washed it a long time it got warmer. I even saw some place where Ilford had published that info. I don't use that paper now but about 12 years ago or so it would often come out with uneven warming on the base of the print. I kind of think it is more stable now.

 

[5stringdeath]

40 minutes isn't exactly a long wash either ... I wouldn't expect any color shift at all, especially not cooler with that paper.

ps - by "long wash" I mean its not like you forgot about it for 4 hours

 

[Sim2]

Yeah, bit of a splash and dash really with 40 mins!
Should be sensible and compare a slight washed one with a full washed one but testing is not the "most fun" especially when there is a pool of wisdom available..... !

 

[grahamp]

If you selenium tone Warmtone fibre enough to get a distinct warm tone (not easy), it may cool a little in the wash. Otherwise it is a very stable paper.

Aside: I am so used to the low response of Warmtone in selenium, that when I toned some Bergger (developed in Ansco lith for really warm initial tones) the colour changes from warm to ginger to purple and back to chocolate were startling

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Some papers have florescent brighteners that can wash out if you wash your prints too long. Use a good hypo clear so you don't have to wash your prints for 40 minutes.

 

[5stringdeath]

Some papers have florescent brighteners that can wash out if you wash your prints too long. Use a good hypo clear so you don't have to wash your prints for 40 minutes.

40 minutes isn't long even after a hypo bath ... not with fiber paper.

 

[Sim2]

If you selenium tone Warmtone fibre enough to get a distinct warm tone (not easy), it may cool a little in the wash. Otherwise it is a very stable paper.

Aside: I am so used to the low response of Warmtone in selenium, that when I toned some Bergger (developed in Ansco lith for really warm initial tones) the colour changes from warm to ginger to purple and back to chocolate were startling

I find that the Warmtone paper tones quite quickly - at roughly 1:7 dilution about 5 mins to get tone shift. I do not tone to completion, on the set of pics I am working on preferring to "split tone" - blacks and the low greys shiting but leaving the higher tones fairly untouched.

Don't know how this compares with your times or other papers as I am standardizing on being confused with just one paper at the moment!

Sim2.

 

[Sim2]

After a non-scientific test....

Hallo, back here again to trouble you lovely people!

Ok, so just done some printing and washed the prints for the standard Ilford recommended 60 minutes (not using washaid) and compared to a print not washed for the same time .......

it is cooler.

Scenario: Ilford Warmtone gloss 10x8 dev'd 3 mins in Warmtone M/grade, fix 2 1/2 mins Hypam, into static water bath before transferring to print washer (in another room) - perhaps 15mins before transfer. Wash in running water 60 min, temp no lower than 19C. Air dry.
Tseting print - all the same except no 60 min running water wash but had the 15 min in static water bath.

It is an obvious difference between hte "test print" and the washed print - light whites and midtone greys are definately cooler in tone on the washed print.

I have looked through the literature with the paper and dev and there is no mention of cooling during/after prolonged washing.

Although 60mins is a long time, I do not think that it is excessive for fb paper and I know that times can be reduced by using a hypo clear but there is no mention of cooling due to print wash times.

Does Simon Galley log in anymore, as I would reallly like some info on this one. I love this paper for the toning ability but it's not getting any cheaper - why does it lose warmtone in standard wash?

Sim2.
*cooler by the minute*

 

[5stringdeath]

Maybe your "test print" is just polluted with fixer

 

[Sim2]

Maybe your "test print" is just polluted with fixer

lol! Maybe. But what if I prefer that "color" to the cooler properly washed print?
Not trying to be facetious (spelling?) but the difference is quite marked and haven't noticed such a difference with standard Multigrade prints.

 

[5stringdeath]

Hehe .. well unfortunately I don't have an answer for you. I've washed plenty of prints over the years for 45-60 mins with no tonal shifts. The only thing I can think of is your government is putting something in your water (chemicals) that's really washing out the warm base, really fast.

 

[clayne]

If you selenium tone Warmtone fibre enough to get a distinct warm tone (not easy), it may cool a little in the wash. Otherwise it is a very stable paper.

Aside: I am so used to the low response of Warmtone in selenium, that when I toned some Bergger (developed in Ansco lith for really warm initial tones) the colour changes from warm to ginger to purple and back to chocolate were startling

Check your selenium or concentration. I easily get a shift to eggplant in both fb and rc under 1+10 and 1+20 within 2-3 minutes.

 

[Sim2]

The only thing I can think of is your government is putting something in your water (chemicals) that's really washing out the warm base, really fast.

Why 'tis a veritable conspiracy *looks over shoulder*

I actually wouldn't put it past our glorious nanny state to be adding to the water, but sure does make life tricky! I do filter the water for 1 micron particles but not for chemical "impurities".

Off to put the kettle on for a nice refreshing coffee! :rolleyes:

 

[5stringdeath]

Why 'tis a veritable conspiracy *looks over shoulder*

I actually wouldn't put it past our glorious nanny state to be adding to the water, but sure does make life tricky! I do filter the water for 1 micron particles but not for chemical "impurities".

Off to put the kettle on for a nice refreshing coffee! :rolleyes:

Don't you mean tea?

 

[clayne]

This is standard btw. Same ole wet print swollen emulsion reflecting light differently than dry issue.

 

[5stringdeath]

This is standard btw. Same ole wet print swollen emulsion reflecting light differently than dry issue.

I believe he dried both his test prints. He's talking about comparing dried prints, not a wet vs a dry one.

 

[clayne]

I believe he dried both his test prints. He's talking about comparing dried prints, not a wet vs a dry one.

No. First post:

"Just washed some for 40 mins and am imagining that they seem cooler than when they went in!"

Basic darkroom stuff here - not specific to WT emulsions either.

 

[brian steinberger]

Maybe your "test print" is just polluted with fixer

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm pretty sure this is the culprit. Even after washing a print for 5 minutes after fixing I can tell a difference in tone from a print fresh from the fixer.

 

[5stringdeath]

No. First post:

"Just washed some for 40 mins and am imagining that they seem cooler than when they went in!"

Basic darkroom stuff here - not specific to WT emulsions either.

Ah gotcha. Also in my setup the lighting is different from print room to wash room to dry room. Often makes a huge difference.

 

[Sim2]

The tone is different in both the wet prints and now the dried prints. and under the same light

Perhaps it is the fixer in the relatively unwashed print giving a warmer tone, but as I said - I do not see this relative difference when using standard Multigrade paper in standard dev.

Not dissing any of the replies but just seems like an odd situation to see this on one paper and not the other

Sim2.

 

[Ian Grant]

With warm tone papers over-fixing affects the image colour/tone as the warmest tones bleach quite quickly in rapid fixers, so overfixing gives colder tones and a slightly lighter. The difference can be significant.

Ian