Ilford Delta 3200 now in 100' rolls

[GregY]

I'd use different terms, but I'm sure you are right -- and it ain't just film!

Agreed.... likely nothing to do with the film

 

[MattKing]

I'd use different terms, but I'm sure you are right -- and it ain't just film!

Trump Delays E.U. Tariffs Until July 9

President Trump said he would give the European Union more time to negotiate a trade deal before 50 percent tariffs take effect.



https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/25/us/politics/trump-european-union-tariff.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.GY3h.4cxvYC4WxyuW&smid=url-share

The UK isn't part of the EU.

 

[xkaes]

The UK isn't part of the EU.

True enough, but Trump is trying to put them through the same grinder. So far very little has happened except the UK is willing to take more US meat -- which people in the UK don't want, especially chicken.

U.S.-U.K. Trade Deal to Build on Close Ties but Leave Some Tariffs in Place​

Much of the agreement President Trump unveiled Thursday still needs to be negotiated, but the administration said the deal with one of America’s closest allies would be the first of many.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/08/business/economy/trump-britain-trade-tariffs.html?unlocked_article_code=1.KE8.g93t.2kFu5sGFgt6Y&smid=url-share

 

[MattKing]

True enough, but Trump is trying to put them through the same grinder

We here in Canada are fairly familiar with there being a "grinder" on the horizon!

 

[koraks]

So far very little has happened except the UK is willing to take more US meat -- which people in the UK don't want, especially chicken.

This is well beyond the scope of photography. Let's end the diversion into trade policy here.

 

[MCB18]

the film is produced in very large rolls and the machinery for bulk rolling is already there

I think I should point out that the bulk roll confectioning is almost certainly not automated. I was under the assumption for a long time that it was, however reading @laser’s wonderful book has told me this is not the case. Kodak have to pay a guy to sit in the dark for hours on end folding up those little bags around the roll and putting them in boxes/cans. It’s very teadius work, trust me on that. The only thing automated is spooling the film. I doubt Ilford is much different, but I could be wrong. Sk, if you have ever wondered why bulk film is so expensive, that’s why. It’s probably one of the most expensive products to confection, at least per unit.

 

[Agulliver]

Harman charges £157 per roll in the U.K. Based on what seemed to be a price differential in your favour in the U.S. it may be that you will pay less coverted into $


pentaxuser

Remember that the UK price includes 20% VAT, which the US price does not....US prices typically being quoted without sales tax.

I think I should point out that the bulk roll confectioning is almost certainly not automated. I was under the assumption for a long time that it was, however reading @laser’s wonderful book has told me this is not the case. Kodak have to pay a guy to sit in the dark for hours on end folding up those little bags around the roll and putting them in boxes/cans. It’s very teadius work, trust me on that. The only thing automated is spooling the film. I doubt Ilford is much different, but I could be wrong. Sk, if you have ever wondered why bulk film is so expensive, that’s why. It’s probably one of the most expensive products to confection, at least per unit.

While Harman and Kodak aren't willing to describe the process in detail, it is believed that Harman's manufacturing of bulk rolls is a little less costly/more efficient...but still not automated. Bulk rolls are now a small niche too. Long gone are the days when thousands of schools/colleges/universities ran photography courses and bought lots of 100 foot rolls of Tri-X and HP5. I'm glad that there's sufficient interest for Ilford Delta 3200 to be offered in bulk.

 

[pentaxuser]

Remember that the UK price includes 20% VAT, which the US price does not....US prices typically being quoted without sales tax.

Quite and that may be one of the reasons why the U.S. consumer will pay less. I was not asking why this should be

pentaxuser

 

[dhkirby]

This seems to be about commensurate to their other bulk pricing

 

[MattKing]

I think I should point out that the bulk roll confectioning is almost certainly not automated. I was under the assumption for a long time that it was, however reading @laser’s wonderful book has told me this is not the case. Kodak have to pay a guy to sit in the dark for hours on end folding up those little bags around the roll and putting them in boxes/cans. It’s very teadius work, trust me on that. The only thing automated is spooling the film. I doubt Ilford is much different, but I could be wrong. Sk, if you have ever wondered why bulk film is so expensive, that’s why. It’s probably one of the most expensive products to confection, at least per unit.

Actually, Eastman Kodak's machinery and procedure for this is likely to be much older and less efficient than Harman's.
Kodak uses a machine and portion of their production line that is a very old and labour intensive remnant from the days when the bulk film market was far different than it is now - when bulk rolls were sold for photo identification and school photography use in cameras that took 100 feet of film at a time. Parts of the production are actually in different buildings then where most of the confectioning - which Kodak refers to as finishing - is done, and the amount of manual labour and square footage employed is an inordinately high number per roll.
Almost none of Eastman Kodak's much more recent modernization/automation of the finishing process can be applied to the finishing of bulk rolls.
As Harman/Ilford went through much of its downsizing and reorganization with markets like the educational market in mind, it is likely that their per unit costs for this are lower.

 

[foc]

The UK isn't part of the EU.

Does the US administration know that?

 

[pentaxuser]

True enough, but Trump is trying to put them through the same grinder. So far very little has happened except the UK is willing to take more US meat -- which people in the UK don't want, especially chicken.

​

Well our Kentucky Fried Chicken chain of outlets in the U.K. is thriving which seems to be at odds with us not wanting U.S. chicken Perhaps we are OK with chicken coming only from Kentucky? Certainly everybody here knows Colonel Saunders who hangs his picture outside every outlet. He looks a bit like Burl Ives so I assumed he must be American

pentaxuser

 

[xkaes]

Well our Kentucky Fried Chicken chain of outlets in the U.K. is thriving which seems to be at odds with us not wanting U.S. chicken P

pentaxuser

If you believe Peter Navarro, there's no problem. Navarro is the guy that Elon Musk called, "dumber than a sack of bricks!".

https://www.alternet.org/trump-official-us-chicken/

And back to film, the NEW, still up-in-the-air deal will not change the current tariffs on products like film.

 

[pentaxuser]

If you believe Peter Navarro, there's no problem. Navarro is the guy that Elon Musk called, "dumber than a sack of bricks!".

https://www.alternet.org/trump-official-us-chicken/

And back to film, the NEW, still up-in-the-air deal will not change the current tariffs on products like film.

I was only trying to inject a bit of humour into the thread by associating a company called Kentucky Fried Chicken in the U.K. with the state of Kentucky and the Colonel Sanders sign with Burl Ives as there appears to be a similarity in some of the photos
of Burl
The chicken used in the U.K outlets is not U.S. sourced but is sourced locally. I was hoping some humorous repartee might have ensured

Just put it down to my strange British sense of humour

Talking of which, here's a question to which I have no answer: If the 4 minute warning sounds while I am on Photrio and I have a merry quip to impart on Photrio, do I do so or do I abandon my quip and be with my loved ones instead?

Truth to tell, I don't know



pentaxuser

 

[xkaes]

Humor is always appreciated -- and here's a little more.

If there isn't an issue with the US trying to get more chicken into the UK, there wouldn't be such a beef about it.

Right now I'm stewing over how to get more UK film into the US.

 

[pentaxuser]

Humor is always appreciated -- and here's a little more.

If there isn't an issue with the US trying to get more chicken into the UK, there wouldn't be such a beef about it.

Right now I'm stewing over how to get more UK film into the US.

Thanks On a serious note I do not know what the issue is with US beef or chicken or any other meat but it appears to be to do with what is done to meat in the broadest sense of the word "meat" There appears to be a long term medical concern

However I feel U.K. film getting into the U.S. may not be a worry. In terms of film's importance it is probably only on our radar. As a product it has to be a miniscule amount of the 2 nations trade and of very little interest to anyone else

pentaxuser

 

[Agulliver]

Thanks On a serious note I do not know what the issue is with US beef or chicken or any other meat but it appears to be to do with what is done to meat in the broadest sense of the word "meat" There appears to be a long term medical concern

However I feel U.K. film getting into the U.S. may not be a worry. In terms of film's importance it is probably only on our radar. As a product it has to be a miniscule amount of the 2 nations trade and of very little interest to anyone else

pentaxuser

Of course KFC in the UK uses British chicken....

The issue with US chicken is the way it's chlorine-washed. This process is not deemed safe on this side of the pond. The concern is that the chlorination masks initial poor hygiene standards (the US never has really dealt properly with bird flu) and less stringent welfare standards used in the US compared to our own - which themselves are probably somewhat lacking. Additionally the chlorination doesn't get rid of all the bacteria in the chicken, just makes it far more difficult to detect in tests.

With regards to beef it is the pumping of healthy animals with antibiotics and hormones which has been banned here for decades....we have basic hygiene and wellbeing standards instead. The long term effects of both the antibiotics and hormones in beef have been studied and don't exactly make people hurry to eat USDA beef. There are also credible reports of chickens infected with bird flu in the USA being fed to cattle grown for meat.

Now...to try and get back to photography and Ilford films. It strikes me that the one disadvantage of Delta 3200 in 100 foot rolls is that it's shelf life is nothing like that of the other films Harman offer (Ilford/Kentmere) in bulk loads. HP5+ might well have an expiry date three years hence, but we all know that with care it can be used a decade on and will perform admirably. Delta 3200 won't, and needs to be used up closer to it's published expiry date. I'd certainly want to go no longer than 12 months over unless I was freezing the stuff.

The way typical users shoot the other films offered in 100' rolls, this isn't a problem. It might be for Delta 3200 - though I would also imagine that the recent Ilford customer survey played a part in deciding to offer this. Sufficient users must have expressed an interest in the film appearing in bulk loads.

 

[pentaxuser]

Of course KFC in the UK uses British chicken....

The issue with US chicken is the way it's chlorine-washed. This process is not deemed safe on this side of the pond. The concern is that the chlorination masks initial poor hygiene standards (the US never has really dealt properly with bird flu) and less stringent welfare standards used in the US compared to our own - which themselves are probably somewhat lacking. Additionally the chlorination doesn't get rid of all the bacteria in the chicken, just makes it far more difficult to detect in tests.

With regards to beef it is the pumping of healthy animals with antibiotics and hormones which has been banned here for decades....we have basic hygiene and wellbeing standards instead. The long term effects of both the antibiotics and hormones in beef have been studied and don't exactly make people hurry to eat USDA beef. There are also credible reports of chickens infected with bird flu in the USA being fed to cattle grown for meat.

Delta 3200 won't, and needs to be used up closer to it's published expiry date. I'd certainly want to go no longer than 12 months over unless I was freezing the stuff.

Thanks I have learned a lot about what is done to U.S chicken and beef. I suppose the crucial question is:
By how much more do U.S. consumers suffer from ill effects from its consumption than do U.K consumers suffer from ill effects from our beef and chicken but that's another subject which we should leave alone

On D3200 does freezing extend its life to match that of other films such as HP5+ or simply extend it and if so by much less than freezing extends say HP5+ ?

pentaxuser

pentaxuser

 

[xkaes]

On D3200 does freezing extend its life to match that of other films such as HP5+ or simply extend it and if so by much less than freezing extends say HP5+ ?

I suspect that most people who buy 100' rolls freeze them. At least I do. Just makes sense. And with really fast film (2485, 2475, 3200) & IR I put them in a lead film bag, as well. I haven't had any problems.

As to US meat in the UK, it won't last nearly as long as frozen film. Trump can claim a "HUGE trade deal with the UK to accept US meat", but no one over there is going to buy it -- so no US meat packer is going to ship it. It's all PR BS.

On the other hand, if the PR BS helps keep the price of UK film in the US low, we and the UK film makers will be the winners.

 

[xkaes]

STOP THE PRESS -- No, I don't mean the way Trump wants to stop them.-- and get out your LIMBO STICK!!!

I mean that the U.S. Court of International Trade has just delivered a significant setback to Mr. Trump, undercutting his primary leverage as he looks to pressure other nations into striking trade deals more beneficial to the United States.

Before Mr. Trump took office, no president had ever sought to invoke the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, a 1977 law, to impose tariffs on other nations. The law, which primarily concerns trade embargoes and sanctions, does not even mention tariffs.

On Wednesday, the Court of International Trade, the primary federal legal body overseeing such matters, found that Mr. Trump’s tariffs “exceed any authority granted” to the president by the emergency powers law.

It was not clear precisely when and how the tariff collections would grind to a halt. The ruling gave the executive branch up to 10 days to complete the bureaucratic process of ending them. The Trump administration immediately filed its plans to appeal in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit.

But for now, everything is on HOLD, so you can expect the Stock Market to rally today.

For more details, check the INTERNET -- it's all in LIMBO.

 

[pentaxuser]

But for now, everything is on HOLD, so you can expect the Stock Market to rally today.

For more details, check the INTERNET -- it's all in LIMBO.

Anything to do with the "thing" whose name shall not be mentioned is beginning to remind me of the end of each episode of the old b&w Flash Gordon series( we used to see the series on the kids' Saturday morning picture show in the U.K) where there was only "doom" for Flash until we saw the next episode where we saw him escape somehow from his certain doom and live to fight another day

pentaxuser