Good news, Simon. Some of us AGfa mourners are still waiting for Ilford to experiment with putting your excellent warm-tone emulsion on a neutral white paper base, instead of on the ivory base.
Larry
Ilford Delta 25- Simon R Galley?
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Good news, Simon. Some of us AGfa mourners are still waiting for Ilford to experiment with putting your excellent warm-tone emulsion on a neutral white paper base, instead of on the ivory base.
Larry
The Agfa paper did not have an ivory base. It was a warm-tone paper with a warm-tone base. It is not a very good idea to put a warm tone emulsion on a neutral white paper. It would look weird.
OP
OP
According to the other post- it looks like they are having contrast issues with the current design of Delta 25. So its delayed for now. But sounds good they are still working on it.
If you compare the paper base of Ilford's (or Kentmere's) warmtone paper, it is much "warmer" than the base Agfa used. The particular charm of Agfa was that it was a warmtone emulsion on a more-or-less neutral white base. The base may not have been a brilliant white, but it was definitely a cooler tone than the emulsion. It's this combination that I've been unable to find anywhere.
I think, for example, that Ilford could coat their warmtone emulsion (which I love) onto a paper base that they are currently using, e.g., Galerie or MGFB, and the combo would approximate the warm/cool look of the late-lamented Agfa.
The chloro-bromide emulsions always give better shadow detail than the colder-toned emulsions. When I compare a print of the same neg made on (for example) Ilford MGFB with one made on Agfa MCC or even Ilford Warmtone, the difference in shadow detail is astonishing. On the warmer toned emulsions, you can see all the way into the shadows with great tonal gradation. In the colder emulsions, you can't. Yet, not all subjects lend themselves to the ivory/yellowish look of most of the warmtone papers out there, a look that is principally due to the ivory colored base.
Larry
I used Agfa MCC quite extensively and I would not characterize it as having an "ivory" base. I think "off-white" would be more accurate.
Highlights did have a warmer tint than you would find with Forte, Ilford, or Kodak VC papers. But it certainly was not a warm-toned paper. The shadows were pretty neutral; and they did not exhibit the open quality that the previous poster cites as being characteristic of true warm-toned papers.
It was good stuff, overall. It reached a pretty strong grade 4 with number 5 Multigrade filters and had remarkably high Dmax untoned. It had a surprisingly short toe, despite what the D&R curves on Agfa's own datasheets suggested. It's greatest weakness, in my opinion, was that it exhibited greater dry-down (maybe as much as 10-12%) than any other fiber paper I've had the opportunity to use. It also didn't exhibit much color shift in Selenium - though whether or not that is a weakness depends on the application.
Highlights did have a warmer tint than you would find with Forte, Ilford, or Kodak VC papers. But it certainly was not a warm-toned paper. The shadows were pretty neutral; and they did not exhibit the open quality that the previous poster cites as being characteristic of true warm-toned papers.
It was good stuff, overall. It reached a pretty strong grade 4 with number 5 Multigrade filters and had remarkably high Dmax untoned. It had a surprisingly short toe, despite what the D&R curves on Agfa's own datasheets suggested. It's greatest weakness, in my opinion, was that it exhibited greater dry-down (maybe as much as 10-12%) than any other fiber paper I've had the opportunity to use. It also didn't exhibit much color shift in Selenium - though whether or not that is a weakness depends on the application.
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How does using Neural or Cooltone paper with a warm tone developer look?
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A few images in the gallery here are treated this way, and vice verse- warm paper with cooltone developer. Really nice tones, almost a split tone it looks to me, well from the scans anyway. Thinking of trying it myself.
OP
OP
A darkroom would be nice. I wonder how this film post ended up talking about papers instead?
Don't know that I can answer that. I use a variant of E-72 which is a more-or-less neutral tone developer. Haven't really experimented with a warm-tone developer.
Larry
I agree with most everything you said, except your statement that that Agfa MCC shadows don't have the open quality of warm-tone papers. I have plenty of comparison prints (MGFB vs. MCC) to prove that they do. On the Agfa prints I can see much more deeply into the shadows than I can on the MGFB prints. It's why I switched from MGFB to MCC as my standard neutral tone paper years ago. I haven't found the dry-down to be a problem for me.
Larry
Stoo,
Simon answered (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Brian
Simon answered (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Brian
Thanks Brian
I missed that one. Not what I wanted to read, but, thats life I guess.
Kind regards
Stoo
Well Folks;
I'll get on this bandwagon too!
It would be especially nice in 120, as well as 35mm, and anything larger would be great as well!
Keith
I'll get on this bandwagon too!
It would be especially nice in 120, as well as 35mm, and anything larger would be great as well!
Keith
That's what I get for not reading the entire thread! But we can still hope I suppose.
Keith
Keith
I'll second that!
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