Ilford 4x5 film and Tmax developer - ok?

Digidurst · Feb 16, 2005

Hi all! I'm new to APUG and this is my first post (well, after my intro post in the 'introduce yourself' forum). What a great resource this site is! I searched but couldn't find an answer to my dilemma.

Anyway, I'm getting ready to develop Ilford 4x5 film (FP4 if memory serves). Since I'm new to LF and it's been years since developing 35mm, I figured I'd stick with what I was familiar with and use liquid Tmax (not RS). I have also used D76 with success but again that was years ago.

Any reason not to use this combo? I'd had to ruin my first film run!

p.s. What the devil is 'pyrocat'?

papagene · Feb 16, 2005

Ellen,
Yes youcan use Ilford films and TMax developer. I have done it in the past with good results. Any ruined film will be in th ecatagory of user error.
Pyrocat is a staining developer. I'll let those who use it describe it for you. I use PMK Pyro with Ilford films and really like the combination.
Good luck and welcome aboard.

gene

Digidurst · Feb 16, 2005

papagene said:
Ellen,
Pyrocat is a staining developer. I'll let those who use it describe it for you. I use PMK Pyro with Ilford films and really like the combination.
Good luck and welcome aboard.

gene

A staining developer?

Also, is it ok to mix brands when it comes to stop bath and/or fixer?

Methinks I could use a book reference so that I can learn and so I don't bother you poor folks to death

jd callow · Feb 16, 2005

Digidurst said:
Methinks I could use a book reference so that I can learn and so I don't bother you poor folks to death

No, these folks are far better than a book and seem to operate under the theme of no question is a stupid question.

Although, books are good.

Digidurst · Feb 16, 2005

mrcallow said:
No, these folks are far better than a book and seem to operate under the theme of no question is a stupid question.

Thank goodness!

Konical · Feb 16, 2005

Good Evening, Ellen,

T-Max developer has worked well with any film I've tried it on. Incidentally, the regular stuff (non-RS) is supposedly not to be used with the T-Max sheet films, but I've used it for years with absolutely no problem. Apparently it doesn't work for everyone under all conditions (water variability???). I see no reason it wouldn't be fine for Ilford films, although I've only used it with Delta 3200.

Konical

Konical · Feb 16, 2005

Just an addendum to the post above. I mix directly from concentrate for each use, but ordinarily use 1:7 dilution instead of Kodak's typical recommendation of 1:4.

Konical

Digidurst · Feb 16, 2005

Konical said:
Just an addendum to the post above. I mix directly from concentrate for each use, but ordinarily use 1:7 dilution instead of Kodak's typical recommendation of 1:4.

Konical

Really? Do you adjust your development time because of the new ratio?

Konical · Feb 16, 2005

Hello Again, Ellen,

My most-used films are T-100 and T-400. With the T-Max 1:7 dilution, my times will usually be 9-10 minutes (T-100) and 8-9 minutes (T-400) for sheet film developed in a Chromaga drum rotated on a motor base. Depending on the contrast of the scene, my times will vary up or down somewhat, although I don't pretend to any scientific application of the Zone System. I started using this procedure based on David Brooks' articles in Photographic magazine (December, 1987, pp. 44-46+ and September, 1987, pp. 52-54) along with a few other articles elsewhere which appeared soon after T-Max developer was introduced. Generally, whatever Kodak's time recommendation for 1:4 dilution is can be multiplied by around 1.2-1.4 for a good starting point. If you want the information in the magazine articles, I'm sure we can work out something without too much trouble; I probably still have the magazines. Just PM. (Out of town tomorrow and part of Friday, but I will respond as promptly as possible.)

Konical

pwitkop · Feb 16, 2005

From what I read (in this article from John Sexton: http://largeformatphotography.info/articles/sexton-tmax.html), the reason not to use regular t-max developer with t-max sheet film is some people have encountered dichroic fog, but it can be fixed by a quick bath in farmers reducer.

Peter

dphphoto · Oct 25, 2005

Pyrocat HD is available from Photographers' Formulary. It's a staining developer similar to PMK pyro, meaning that it stains the film grain progressively, thus building density in the highlights without increasing grain. I've used PMK with TMX 4X5 and had great success, but I switched back to HC110 because, well, for a number of years I got it almost for free. I'm terribly cheap. And I also get very good results with it.
You can mix brands of chemicals all you want. It's not like Ilford fix will ruin Kodak film. You might try using plain ol' water for stop; it's easier on film than acid stop and, not to sound like a broken record, cheap.
Best to stick with one film/developer combination until you know it well. Then, if you feel the need, you can try other films and developers. Pyro is certainly worth investigating. Dean

Tom Hoskinson · Oct 25, 2005

Digidurst said:
p.s. What the devil is 'pyrocat'?

Pyrocat-HD is the creation of Sandy King, an APUG Member. It is a proportional staining and tanning developer. Pyrocatechol and Phenidone are the developing agents. Pyrocat-HD is a public domain formulation.

See:http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PCat/PCat2/pcat2.html

I currently use Pyrocat-HD for all of my large format work. I also use it for MF and 35mm developing. I mix my own Pyrocat-HD from scratch.

Pyrocat-HD can be purchased in liquid concentrate form from Bostick and Sullivan, Artcraft Chemicals, Photographers Formulary and others.

BradS · Oct 25, 2005

Doesn't the Kodak tech pub specifically warn not to use Tmax dev with sheet films?

John Cook · Oct 25, 2005

Zola Levitt, the great American Messianic Jewish leader, is fond of joking that wherever you find two Israelis, you will also find three opinions.

I believe the same can be said of photographers.

It is certainly possible to mix brands of b&w materials and chemicals usually with spectacular results. But sometimes not.

Photography is not unlike Bible study. No matter what far-out cockamamie theory you propose, some nut on this or another forum will passionately back you up.

My advice is that it would indeed be unfortunate to ignore the wealth of accurate, reliable, comprehensive PDF technical product files on the Ilford website. Best in the business and a major reason for selecting Ilford products.

There is a goldmine of non-opinionated information, including suitable developers, in great detail there, written by the scientists who created all these things and know them best. No baloney.

Download all those data, print them out and insert everything in a series of three-ring loose-leaf notebooks for your lab reference shelf.

There is a whole, free-of-charge, college course on b&w photography in those files.

http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/bw.html

tim atherton · Oct 25, 2005

Ilford DD-X works very well with FP4 and HP5 sheet film

Konical · Oct 25, 2005

BradS said:
Doesn't the Kodak tech pub specifically warn not to use Tmax dev with sheet films?

Good Evening, Brad,

Yes, Kodak is very specific about this and has a warning on the regular T-Max Developer bottles. For years however, I failed to notice the warning and used it for 4 x 5 T-Max films; somewhere along the line, I spotted the warning, but, since I have never had even the slightest problem, I continue to use it for 35mm, 120, and 4 x 5. As my earlier post in this thread indicates, I normally dilute the concentrate 1:7 and process with continuous agitation in a Chromega drum.

Konical

dphphoto · Oct 26, 2005

John: thanks for reminding me (us) about the Ilford site. Dean

Ilford 4x5 film and Tmax developer - ok?

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