Ilfochrome P-3x Chemicals

[ghas]

Does anyone know if Ilfochrome chemistry is available in the U.S.? I have quite a bit of paper but haven't been able to find the chemistry. I have been printing with the chemistry kits in my home darkroom since 1994 but seem to be at an impasse now.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Several people here have gotten good results with home brew chemistry.

You might want to look their posts up.

PE

 

[Renato Tonelli]

You couldtry calling Freestyle - I ordered my last batch from them. Although they stopped making Ilfochrome materials, there may be some left over.

 

[Rudeofus]

As far as I have read they stopped coating Ilfochrome print material and it's sold out by now. They promised they would make the chems for a little longer, so you might be lucky.

ghas, how open are you to home brewing?

 

[ghas]

Home Brewing

The home brewing thing looks like just a bunch of chemists talking about formulas but not any info about whether the bleach actually worked. I've got a degree in chemistry myself and still couldn't follow the convoluted threads that I read so far. If I could use off the shelf developer and fixer and only had to make the bleach, I would be interested.

 

[Photo Engineer]

This is exactly the case. You can use OTS chemistry for the developer and fixer. The bleach must be done by trial and error. There are some good answers on this very question in those threads.

PE

 

[ndrs]

The chemistry is still available in Europe and it seems it won't be discontinued until at least mid-2013. Shipping strong acid to U.S. might be a problem, though.

I'm using unmodified Dektol 1:2, original Ilfochrome bleach, and neutral fixer in CAP-40 with results indistinguishable from ones done in the full original set.

 

[Rudeofus]

The home brewing thing looks like just a bunch of chemists talking about formulas but not any info about whether the bleach actually worked. I've got a degree in chemistry myself and still couldn't follow the convoluted threads that I read so far. If I could use off the shelf developer and fixer and only had to make the bleach, I would be interested.

If you look in my (there was a url link here which no longer exists) and the thread following it, you will see that this is the case, and you will see working formulas for developer and fixer. I used these with results that were at least good to my eye. I'm still in the research phase for dye bleach. PS: I am no chemist.

 

[ghas]

Beach

It appears to me that the developer and fixer issues are not too complicated but there are at least 10 threads about home brew bleach and none of them brag about having any success making good prints. I've been processing Ilfochrome in my home dark room for at least 19 years and the process is so simple and reproducible with the Ilford chemicals it seems the whole concept is lost if you have to make a bleach solution out of hard to purchase chemicals and then find out it doesn't work.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I agree, but the formula for the bleach is apparently a closely guarded secret.

I have mixed up bleaches that work just fine for things I coat myself, and that worked on the old DB material sold as Cibachrome way back when. All I can tell you is that most all published formulas will bleach, but many do so with changes in color balance or contrast. Additional problems include the fact that they leave some silver behind and thus need an extra conventional bleach before fixing.

I know most of the ingredients, but if you go here: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/msds/ilford/P30_BLEACH-C.PDF as is typical of their publications, they only give Sulfamic Acid as the "ingredient". And here: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/msds/ilford/P30_BLEACH-A.PDF they are totally cryptic about the catalyst that does the work.

There is some work here on APUG that gives the correct name for the catalyst. I have had reasonable results with Phenazine. The Nitrobenzene Sulfonic acid is needed to give the correct contrast.

PE

 

[ghas]

Bleach Source

Thanks so much for your help. I may have a lead on a company in NY that stocks the chemistry and I'll let you know how it goes. I will be in NY next week.

 

[ndrs]

This is what they say on the bleach labels for current chemistry:

BL3.20 bleach (for 20 litres, three parts)

Part A
"with no more than 51% acid"
Sulfuric Acid
Sodium 3-Nitrobenzene Sulfonate (CAS 127-68-4)
Water

Part B
Ethyl Diglycol
3-Mercapto-1-Propane Sulfonic Acid (CAS 17636-10-1)
Potassium Iodide
Sodium Bromide
Sodium Iodide
Quinoxaline Derivative 7 (CAS 17635-21-1)
Water

Part C
Potassium Carbonate
Sulfonated Trialkylphosphine (CAS 86563-95-3)
Water


BL30.2 bleach (for 2 litres, single part)
Ethyl Diglycol
Sulfuric Acid
Sodium 3-Nitrobenzene Sulfonate (CAS 127-68-4)
Water

One can only guess why the single part contains significantly smaller number of chemicals. Could it be only because of the labelling requirements?

Andres

 

[Photo Engineer]

The problem is that the nitrobenzene sulfonate level is critical to good imaging, the actual name of the trialkyl phosphine is not specified and the quinoxaline derivative 7 is not exactly specified but there have been posts here about what it is supposed to be.

It is the catalyst that actually forms the image and is supposed to be the condensation product of Diacetyl with o-Phenylene Diamine. Elsewhere on APUG, the method of making it is not correct and I did post this correction there.

NDRS, all of those items are specified in the links I gave before, but perhaps with more or less information. You may want to look at those MSDS forms.

PE