Ilex #4 Universal Shutter Problem.

[Tom1956]

Thanks anybody. It came today--the Ilex 12 inch 6.3 Series C I got off ebay for $115, knowing it had shutter problems. BTW, the glass is gorgeous. Now I have to tackle the shutter problems. Right now the shutter is stuck part open. First thing I did was the old squirt naptha in it trick. And it worked pretty well on 25, 50, 75. But from 10 on down it stayed open. Now that the naptha is drying out, it's stuck part open on everything. Obviously I'm going to have to open it up.
I'm not having any real success on a google search. It appears it opens up from the front side. There's no screws in the back. But if I do that, am I going to be on my hands and knees searching for something that flies out? I know I've seen something on here about these old Ilexes. I'm attaching a scan of it off the bed of my photocopier, if anybody can shed some light. An assembly manual would be really great. But whatever--thanks, guys.

 

[shutterfinger]

Isn't this the shutter type that uses the hard rubber shutter blades that Naphtha and similar solvents destroy?
Otherwise its simple and straight forward. Take a picture after you remove each item, don't operate with the face plate off, and
FLUSH WITH ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL ASAP.

 

[Tom1956]

Poured a bunch of 100% isopropyl in it. No, this is a pig-in-a-poke I bought off ebay from a low quality photo, like a fool. It just occurred to me this thing has no f/stop dial. Oh well, live and learn.Good thing that's not the sorriest thing that happened to me this week, by a long shot.
I don't think I ever heard of a shutter with no f/stop dial.

 

[shutterfinger]

The three screws across the lower portion of the shutter are for the scale. If someone changed the cells from a similar shutter that died then they removed the aperture scale as it would not have been accurate for this shutter. f6.3 is 1/3 stop smaller than f5.6. Divide the marked focal length by the f stop, close the aperture until the aperture opening is that diameter when viewed through the front lens cell mark the substitute scale, works for any focal length in any shutter, marked fastest aperture and smaller. This will not be as accurate as an optically measured one but close enough to be within 1/3 stop of perfect.

In your picture there is rust around the lens opening. Remove the rusted components from the shutter, place in a container of Cider Vinegar and allow to sit 15 minutes to an hour depending on how serious the rust is. Wipe dry upon removing from the vinegar and rub the previously rusted area down with light weight oil or grease such as white lithium grease as it will start to rust again within 24 hours otherwise.

I have a Compur 00 that has no aperture scale. It had rusted shutter and aperture blades, soaked in vinegar,cleaned, lubed, reassembled, works fine 1/100 and slower, may have to disassemble it and blue the blades to prevent reflections. I also recently cleaned up a Compur-Rapid that had rusted shutter blades, will be shooting with both in the near future as the fog is starting to clear for a day or two.

 

[Tom1956]

Thank you for your help. But something here is very strange, which I could not really tell in the ad listing. There is no aperture whatsoever. I mean there's no lever, or a slot where a missing lever might have been. No scale--no nothing. This shutter appears to have no f/stop assembly at all. Just a shutter and that's it. I never heard of such a thing.

 

[shutterfinger]

Post a picture of the rear of the shutter and the lower edge of the shutter.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Thank you for your help. But something here is very strange, which I could not really tell in the ad listing. There is no aperture whatsoever. I mean there's no lever, or a slot where a missing lever might have been. No scale--no nothing. This shutter appears to have no f/stop assembly at all. Just a shutter and that's it. I never heard of such a thing.

Listen carefully: Polaroid MP-4 shutter (Copal Press #1). Compound #5 for industrial applications. A few, not many of, the #1 Prontor Press shutters for the Polaroid MP-3 system; to be exact, those intended to have a 35/4 Eurygon stuffed in them. A few, not many, of the #1 Copal Press shutters for the Polaroid CU-5 system; to be exact, those intended to have a 17/4 Tominon stuffed in them. All without diaphragms. I have several of the first, one of the second, none of the others.

In general, these are shutters made to have lenses in barrel screwed into them, to be hung in front of shutters, or to interrupt beams of light.

 

[Tom1956]

This is the rear. No edge view is possible, as these shots are off the scan bed of my copier. But take my word--there are no slots, holes, or other where a lever could be. If you will note the orange arrow I drew in photoshop, it points to a tear in a thick black paper ring. This paper ring appears to be original, not something added by some boob at some time. I just don't get it.

 

[shutterfinger]

I think Dan has got it, special purpose shutter.

 

[xya]

some of the aerial (military) cameras had no aperture. they were just shot wide open. mostly extreme wide angle.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

What Dan said.
Now here's the problem. It's certain that this isn't the original shutter, which means that the spacing of the cells may or may not be correct.
The lack of an aperture is not the end of the world as far as this lens/shutter combo is concerned, because you can make washer stops (as long as the spacing is correct) and use the lens, albeit with far less convenience.

 

[Tom1956]

I'm just going to send it back. It's obviously something that isn't right. Thanks guys.