if you mix your own chemistry from raw chemicals

[Gerald C Koch]

Does anyone mix the t-grain developers like DD-X or Tmax? I know they are "proprietary formulas" but has anyone figured them out yet?

There is Crawley's FX-37 which was developed for T-Max and Delta grain films.

 

[StoneNYC]

Ilford recommend DD-X for all of their films. It is not specific to the Delta / TMAx films.

I'm asking if anyone knows the formulas not what film they are paired with


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BradS]

I'm asking if anyone knows the formulas not what film they are paired with
~Stone

Yes, I understand what you're asking but "the t-grain developers like DD-X" implies that DD-X is specific to "t-grain"...which it is not. I was just trying to disabuse you of the notion that DD-X was somehow specific to t-grain [films] because it certainly is not. I don't know enough about TMax developer to comment on it. Bottom line is thatDD-X is a modern developer that is well suited to just about any modern B&W film...not just Delta and TMax.

 

[StoneNYC]

Yes, I understand what you're asking but "the t-grain developers like DD-X" implies that DD-X is specific to "t-grain"...which it is not. I was just trying to disabuse you of the notion that DD-X was somehow specific to t-grain [films] because it certainly is not. I don't know enough about TMax developer to comment on it. Bottom line is thatDD-X is a modern developer that is well suited to just about any modern B&W film...not just Delta and TMax.

Gotcha, thanks for the info, it's always good to hear affirmation.


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[StigHagen]

I mix my own chemicals because:

1. CONTROL
I can tweak the formula to fit my needs. E.g. if I mix Amidol paper developer I can add a little bit extra of Kbr (Potassium Bromide) to make the image warmer looking. Or when mixing ABC Pyro film developer I can add some extra Sodium Carbonate to speed up development. This is useful when I need push more contrast.

2. ECONOMY
Especially for the formulas I use, there are big savings mixing it oneself. Another point is that I can mix exactly the amount I need, not needing to have bottles of unused chemistry on the shelf for too long!

3. FUN
I like the feeling of being able to mix everything myself, gives me some self-confidence in what I am doing, even If I'm far away from being an expert.

I actually mix everything from raw now: film developer, paper developer, stop bath and fixer. I will also in the future mix hypo clearing agent as well!

 

[c6h6o3]

Most of my photography involves contact printing on silver chloride papers and my preferred film developer is ABC pyro, which to my knowledge is not available premixed. Ditto the amidol formula I use for printing and the fixer (2 bath plain hypo, with sodium metabisulfite added to the first bath). Although they're all available as kits, I find it far less expensive to just keep a supply of the raw chemicals and mix them ad hoc.

I don't mix my own because it gives me any particular advantage. It's just that they're not available premixed or are prohibitively expensive premixed. When I develop negatives I intend to enlarge I usually use Defender 777, which is only available as a kit of pre-measured powders (when it's available, which it doesn't seem to be at present).

 

[Mike Wilde]

I started DIY mixing when I got back into my own colour processing after an 8 year hiatus.
4 years in a small apartment when first married saving towards a house and the darkroom gear all stuffed into a storage closet, instead of being used in the basement darkroom of a shared house I had owned with two other guys.

Then 4 years living in Australia with all my darkroom gear left packed up in my parent basement.
Finally back in Canada, but now with two young kids as part of the fold.

I knew from prior forays into colour in the old ep/2 world that the chemistry kit in a box route to printing on your own meant mixing the kit and using it over a few weeks of printing like mad before the chemistry pooped out.

So I ordered a starting batch of raw chemistry stuff from Johnnie at JD Photochem.

Then I contunued to built up and broaden my stock with orders from Mike at Artcraft, and some Formualry orders, and later Claire when she took over from Johnnie.
I do dearly miss the great service JD offered me.

With raw chems at hand:
I could mix a litre or half a litre of c-41 and process the films at hand, with fresh chems to suit the backlog.
I could mix a litre of RA-4, and process in tube, and know that if I did not finish the litre, the left overs poured away at the end of a day or two only were a small loss, not $40 or more like kit quanities gone off of the past.

Only when a roller processor landed in my lap for what I consider a great deal did I look to to buying kit based Kodak RA-RT chemistry.
My home brew RA developer oxidized in no time in the roller tank.

I have also mixed from scratch for E-6, and also use pre mixed 6 step E-6 from the cast offs of a photo processor who abandon slide processing.

By then I then found I had the lion's share of what was needed to diy mix my b&w chemistry of all sorts as well.
Some times I will 'dip a toe in' to try a mix, and then order the whole kit from the formulary. The try before a big buy is what I like with DIY mixing.

It is also nice to know that if I will be away from the darkroom ( I have a busy professional and family life), DIY gets me on my feet in almost no time.
It is just a matter of one night to mix fresh chems and the next night I am priniting or processing a backlog of films with chems that I know have not gone dodgy from sitting unused , or worse yet, partially used for some months. Too many past brown liquid in part used bottles of Ilford Multigrade developer no more.

I do have lots of commercial mixes that land on me as I buy up darkroom lots , and use them when still vailble.

I do a lot of cooking food from scratch, put up preserves for winter, make my own soaps from lye and fats, and also make some of our own wine and vodka, so diy photo chemistry is just one more thing to mix up to put into usable form.

Alt process curiousity is another factor.
If I am sizing and coating my own paper, then why not diy formulate my own developer to suit the needs of the project at hand?

 

[Роберт]

Do you have a good recept for Vodka?

 

[Mike Wilde]

Do you have a good recept for Vodka?

All general wine making sterilization and rinsing and washing of equipment rules apply.

Specialist high alcohol content tolerant yeast strains and refined sugar based mash gets me close to 18% after fermentation stops, per my hygrometer.
Sugar amount is on the yeast packet I buy (about 6kg per 20L I think).
Add sugar and stir to fully dissolve in hot water and let mix cool somewhat in a wine primary fermenter pail before adding yeast, or the little buggers will be killed before they do their heavenly work.
Keep warm as per wine making, till the bubbling in the air lock dies off.
I then decant off the supernatant carefully to leave the lees (although in truth quite small lees, less than with grapes, when refined sugar is used to make the mash)

Cold distill in stages in a 5 gallon plastic pail with a tight fitting lid, of the sort I usually buy wine juice in.

Place a stainless steel salad bowl glued/screwed upside down to the underide of its lid.
Place a 1 gallon stainless vessel inside the pail on spacers (I use 3-4 small granite pebbles).

Add a glass tube type fish tank immersion heater with the tab stops broken off (to allow you to wind it up to a temperture that would slowly poach most fish) into the 1 gallon vessel.
Route the cord out the top of the pail (I drilled a hole for the power plug, and sealed the plug with electricians duct sealing putty. Power from a GFI/RCD protected plug is a good idea.

The vessel is postitioned so that the heated vapours rise, and condenses on the cooler outside walls and lid of the pail.
The salad bowl makes sure the condensate on the top of the pail does not fall back into the heated vessel.
The stones keep the liquid that collects in the bottom of the pail cooler than the heated vessel, so the whole pail does not warm up.

Nicer product if you discard the first half days worth of condensate or keep it to re - distill later.
Drain the condensate every few days, and keep the heated vessel full so the thermostat in the heater does not get clear of the liquid.
Research heads and tails. First run is heads, and not the preferred output
Dump the liquid in the heating vessel vessel after it gets under 5% alcohol on your hydrometer.

The collected condensed liquid needs polishing.
I run it though a vertical 4' tall 1.5" diameter copper pipe I had idle in the garage.
Added a large plastic funnel at the top, using SAPT rubber tape to hold it on.
Added a sink rubber plug to seal the charcoal top of the column when not in use.
Slunging it from and old tripod with a screwed up head I had laying around to keep it verical.
I sealed the bottom with a plate fitted with a dripper valve and then part of a stainelss steel pot scrubber went into the pipe and was tamped down to keep the valve clear of charcoal granules, and then fill the tube with actvalted granualted charcoal. (must be wasehd first, and generally kept wet once started.)
Put a pail under the outlet to catch the outlet product.


I would heat the distilled condensate in the microwave to warm it up, and add it to the water filled polishing column.
Open the dripper valve full on and feel as the hot condensate dispaces the water in the pipe. When hot liquid hits the pipe bottom, turn the valve to one drip per second or slower, and leave the full funnel quanity time to slowly percolate though the activated charcoal granules.
Output is what you want to keep. My hydrometer was not calibrated this far, but by extrapolation, it is around 35% or stronger alcohol content.
Add hot water at the end to fill the column again, so granules do not dry out.

I end up with 5 1.5l mason jars of kept product, and a bit more than 1L of 'heads', and the balance of the alcohol left in the supernatant and lees as tails

Not the smoothest stuff for cocktails but fine for mixing with soft drinks, and fruit cordials. Great lemoncello starting point.
A batch takes time to produce, but saved me cash, considering my government liquor outlet markets cheap vodka at over $30 per litre.

I gave up the vodka and wine making up activities when my time got more consumed with kids actiivites.
Nothing to keep me from going back to this in the future.
Happy experimenting.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Does anyone mix the t-grain developers like DD-X or Tmax? I know they are "proprietary formulas" but has anyone figured them out yet?

I looked thru my collections of formulas and found the following.

Developer for T-Max Films

This formula produces results similar to those of the T-Max developer. <BR>

Distilled water (50°C) …………………………………………… 750 ml
Sodium sulfite (anhy) ……………………………………………… 100 g
Hydroquinone ……………………………………………………………………… 3.5 g
Dimezone S …………………………………………………………………………… 2.2 g
Sodium metaborate ………………………………………………………… 14.0 g
Boric acid …………………………………………………………………………… 6.0 g
Ethylene glycol ……………………………………………………………… 100 ml
Distilled water to make ………………………………………… 1.0 l

Use the same dilutions and development times as for T-Max developer.

Another TMax developer

Distilled water (50°C) …………………………………………… 750 ml
Sodium sulfite (anhy) ……………………………………………… 5.0 g
Dimezone ………………………………………………………………………………… 1.4 g
Hydroquinone ……………………………………………………………………… 9.0 g
Diethanolamine SO2 adduct 20 mole % ………… 130.0 g
DTPA Na5 ………………………………………………………………………………… 5.0 ml
Distilled water to make ………………………………………… 1.0 l

The second formula looks like it might be closer to the Kodak product since it contains two special chemicals found in HC-110.

Jerry

 

[gabriele83]

I'd love to do all by myself, from crafting camera, lens, film, paper, chemicals... If only I had the tools, time, materials, space and someone who could teach me.
Imagine how cool it would be to know you're in total control of your creation, in every single bit of the process.
Wouldn't you be proud to think: - "yes I made all this from scratch from the very beginning!" ?

While at the moment I'm just at the beginning as a self learner for what it concerns darkroom and developing.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

you have to stop somewhere. i'm not going to make my own comets to get silver!

 

[removed account4]

Most of my photography involves contact printing on silver chloride papers and my preferred film developer is ABC pyro, which to my knowledge is not available premixed. Ditto the amidol formula I use for printing and the fixer (2 bath plain hypo, with sodium metabisulfite added to the first bath). Although they're all available as kits, I find it far less expensive to just keep a supply of the raw chemicals and mix them ad hoc.

I don't mix my own because it gives me any particular advantage. It's just that they're not available premixed or are prohibitively expensive premixed. When I develop negatives I intend to enlarge I usually use Defender 777, which is only available as a kit of pre-measured powders (when it's available, which it doesn't seem to be at present).

hi jim

i spoke with someone at bluegrass packaging just last week about 777
and she said they are waiting or looking for 1 component chemical ...
i mentioned a few places she might or might not have known about,
where she might or might not be able to procure whatever it is she may or may not
be looking for. ( secret formula )

john

 

[Роберт]

Instead of Defender 777 you can use several other alternatives for this Ultra Fine Grain type developer.
A very good alternative is Windisch W665, made on ortho- Phenylene Diamine instead of that really crappy para- Phenylene Diamine stuff used in 777 or Sease or MCM-100.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

As a chemist I would like to warn people again about the phenylenediamines. They are suspected carcinogens and are capable of causing an extreme form of allergic dermatitis. They are also cross sensitizers that can sensitizze people to related developing agents such as Metol and the color developing agents. Skin absorption has been linked to liver and kidney damage. I speak from personal experience since I had to give up color processing. They are bad news and have no place in modern photography.

 

[c6h6o3]

hi jim

i spoke with someone at bluegrass packaging just last week about 777
and she said they are waiting or looking for 1 component chemical ...
i mentioned a few places she might or might not have known about,
where she might or might not be able to procure whatever it is she may or may not
be looking for. ( secret formula )

john

We've been hearing that baloney for years. Paul Paletti was contacted about 6 months ago by the Bluegrass CEO wanting to know if he knew anyone who would beta test a new batch. I held my hand up and said "Of course. Just make some. I'll pay for it." When I visited with Paul in Louisville in November I asked him if he'd heard from the guy and Surprise! he hadn't. They certainly come off as a bunch of flakes.

I have 2 or 3 gallons worth of powders left and a seasoned gallon with a half gallon of replenisher. As much as I use it any more that may be a lifetime supply.

 

[removed account4]

We've been hearing that baloney for years. Paul Paletti was contacted about 6 months ago by the Bluegrass CEO wanting to know if he knew anyone who would beta test a new batch. I held my hand up and said "Of course. Just make some. I'll pay for it." When I visited with Paul in Louisville in November I asked him if he'd heard from the guy and Surprise! he hadn't. They certainly come off as a bunch of flakes.

I have 2 or 3 gallons worth of powders left and a seasoned gallon with a half gallon of replenisher. As much as I use it any more that may be a lifetime supply.

thats too bad.
too bad they can't just make the PF keep their secret formula
and have them mix and distribute it. sure would make a lot of people
a lot happier ....

 

[gabriele83]

you have to stop somewhere. i'm not going to make my own comets to get silver!

Agreed, also probably is better to skip lens making ;-)

 

[AndreasT]

I would like to take up mixing my own chemicals. What I would like to to know is it correct or false to say that if I dissolve the accelerator in a seperate bath and mix the developer shortly before use that the developer has a longer shelf life.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Agreed, also probably is better to skip lens making ;-)

Not on your life! I'll continue to keep polishing the bottom of my Coke bottle. Should be a great protrait lens and I can say, "I made it myself". JohnW

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I would like to take up mixing my own chemicals. What I would like to to know is it correct or false to say that if I dissolve the accelerator in a seperate bath and mix the developer shortly before use that the developer has a longer shelf life.

There are several factors that cause developers to go bad. The primary cause is exposure to oxygen. When stored in a filled glass bottle the pH of the developer has little effect on the storage life. Some developers may not mix correctly if the accerlorator is omitted to be added later. So to answer your question mix any developer as the formula specifies and do not make changes.

 

[albada]

I would like to take up mixing my own chemicals. What I would like to to know is it correct or false to say that if I dissolve the accelerator in a seperate bath and mix the developer shortly before use that the developer has a longer shelf life.

I think this is true in some cases. For example, Diafine is long-lasting. You could mix two bottles similar to Diafine. Instead of using them as a two-bath, mix them together when you want to develop (and use it one-shot). Does anyone know of a two-part developer like this?

Mark Overton

 

[Gerald C Koch]

In support of my previous statement, pyrogallol plus sodium hydroxide is used routinely in the sciences to scavenge oxygen from closed systems. If there is very little oxygen present there is little color change indicating decomposition. So in the absence of oxygen even this very unstable mixture is stable. I have vials of Neofin Blue that are decades old. They are still colorless since no oxygen can get in. Yet break the seal and the developer is quickly spoiled. So the danger to developers is not their alkalinity but exposure to oxygen. For most developers, which I assume the poster is talking about, leaving the alkali out makes little difference. As Michael pointed out certain special developers are an exception unless one does something similar to what Tetenal does.

 

[pierods]

I mix from scratch:
Pyro-HD King formula, because it is hard to find in Europe (perhaps in Vienna at Lotus) but absolutely not in Belgium.
E-72 (= Hydrochinon free Dektol) because it does not exist commercially.
Buffered stop bath because it does not exist commercially in Europe.

And, last but not least, I like doing it!

What is Lotus in Vienna? Do they have a website?

 

[AndreasT]

What makes me wonder about seperating the developer is that I read somewhere D-76H doea not last long, somewhere else I read it does last long?? The Willi Beutler formula has the carbonate seperate for example. I was just wondering on the line of usually it shouldn't be a bad thing.
Sure the developer should be in a closed bottle etc etc but then again...just wondering.