If you could automate your film processing, would you?

[Andrew O'Neill]

And if I automated the process, I wouldn't know what to do with myself during... I'd probably just stand there, staring at the machine...

 

[Eric Rose]

I find it meditative...crank up the Blues.

I'm with you! The Blues, and some good single malt scotch.

 

[faberryman]

No. I rarely process more than four rolls at a time, and doing something, like agitation and emptying and filling the tank, makes me feel a part of the process. Besides, I don't really have enough room to add a big machine like the Jobo. Space is at a premium in my darkroom.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I'm with you! The Blues, and some good single malt scotch.

Perfect! I might even have a box of Cubans as well!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I wonder if the red glow from the Cuban's is light safe...

 

[BHuij]

I would probably buy it for $500 or less, but I find it hard to envision how a completely automated machine can be manufactured for such a low price.

One key feature that I would want is easy cleaning. Automated processing loses a lot of its luster when it take an hour to clean afterwards.

Our prototype takes the tempered water bath, and, as a last step upon shutdown, flushes it through the entire system and down the sink, so it doubles as clean-up water. Shouldn't have to do any scrubbing or anything like that. I suppose if you wanted to flush the system out in between rolls/sheets (say you were switching from developing E-6 to C-41 in a single session) and didn't want to lose your tempered water, you could just fill up X number of reservoirs with water and pump them through the system.

 

[BHuij]

If I could get someone else to process my film to my specifications that would be just fine by me. Unfortunately the way I process my film does not lend itself to automation. Processing film is the least interesting/enjoyable step in analog photography for me at least.

Interesting, I'd be interested if you could expound on what about your process makes it difficult to automate? Are you developing by inspection or something?

 

[BHuij]

And if I automated the process, I wouldn't know what to do with myself during... I'd probably just stand there, staring at the machine...

Heh, I fully anticipate getting my fill and then some of standing around watching the machine to make sure it's working as we iterate and prototype over the next couple of months

 

[Luckless]

I'm very on the fence about buying a developer machine. If it were small and compact enough to store easily, and the price low enough, then I might find room for one in my budget. While I don't mind the process of developing by hand, I'm also not super in love with it. I've often thought about designing a simple tilt-and-pour system with custom lids for my existing Paterson tanks - Effectively doing what I do now for all the setup and clean up, except I could walk away and deal with other things. Developing for me tends to feel like fairly wasted time due to the awkward bits of time I stand there with nothing to do besides waiting for a clock to advance to the next stage. So it becomes little more than "Glance at Facebook on my phone", but I'm usually caught up on anything interesting posted there by about halfway through developing a tank... And then I'm left kind of bored if I'm doing two or more tanks in a run.

Kit form might be a road to consider when looking to get the final price down towards $300. Contracting out pcb etching and populating is getting very cheap even for fairly low volumes, and can make for fairly decent 'some assembly required' projects. These days I honestly prefer to buy things that I know are made with common off the shelf parts like motors and the like. I consider it a value to know that I can order a common part from any vendor if something burns out rather than being stuck buying from the manufacturer who might close up shop.

 

[1kgcoffee]

I love processing my own. Wouldn't give it up if you paid me.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I am a machine.

 

[BHuij]

...

Kit form might be a road to consider when looking to get the final price down towards $300. Contracting out pcb etching and populating is getting very cheap even for fairly low volumes, and can make for fairly decent 'some assembly required' projects. These days I honestly prefer to buy things that I know are made with common off the shelf parts like motors and the like. I consider it a value to know that I can order a common part from any vendor if something burns out rather than being stuck buying from the manufacturer who might close up shop.

We may well offer this in a kit form. Although we're trying hard to minimize how much manual labor is involved in building these units (i.e. soldering, cutting, etc.), we can't completely marginalize the amount of time spent in assembly when calculating a final retail price. Offering a "some assembly required" kit version would allow us to knock the price down a notch or two based on time saved. It would also appeal to the DIY enthusiasts, and likely be much simpler to pack and ship.

 

[dourbalistar]

I am a machine.

Totally off topic, but your comment reminded me of this Bert Kreischer story.

 

[calebarchie]

We may well offer this in a kit form. Although we're trying hard to minimize how much manual labor is involved in building these units (i.e. soldering, cutting, etc.), we can't completely marginalize the amount of time spent in assembly when calculating a final retail price. Offering a "some assembly required" kit version would allow us to knock the price down a notch or two based on time saved. It would also appeal to the DIY enthusiasts, and likely be much simpler to pack and ship.

This all sounds way, way, way too familiar. For a project I have been working on for years let me tell you it almost never works out how you envision, ever. Kits sound appealing from your end yes, but it must be very well designed to be successful - I would not approach this as an engineering problem at all. At this particular price point, you will find you market will want something all ready to go from the moment they take it out of the box. DIY Enthusiasts are always going to find a way to do it cheaper (thats part of the fun) for a relatively simple contraption like this. Remember - these folk who want automation don't have very much time...

So unless you want to run a charity or build to order on your off time (parts would have to be <100 to be worthwhile) or have some serious mass manufacturing prowess up your sleeve the price-point is going to be difficult.

 

[Sirius Glass]

What you have in freezer now? I think I have 2 rolls of Max 400, a roll of 160NC, a roll of 400VC, some Fuji 400 of some sort and a roll of Ektar 100 120 that'll be done any day. Got some way's to go before I get a kit.

Over a dozen boxes of 4"x5" Portra 160, dozens of 120 film color and black & white including Plus X and UltraColor, over fifty rolls of color and black & white 35mm film including UltraColor.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Perfect! I might even have a box of Cubans as well!

Don't you need to feed the Cubans?

 

[Cholentpot]

Over a dozen boxes of 4"x5" Portra 160, dozens of 120 film color and black & white including Plus X and UltraColor, over fifty rolls of color and black & white 35mm film including UltraColor.

Already exposed? You got some serious catching up to do.

 

[Young He]

Hand developing, especially c-41, is somewhat tedious after a while, but I don't do enough processing on my own to warrant a machine. If I found one for $10 on craigslist, I would definitely get it, as rotary processors do save a lot of chemicals, but the $1000 or more cost of Jobos and the like doesn't justify the minimal time savings. I do RA-4 processing in drums, and it's quite convenient. I see no reason to buy a processor other than the small amount of time savings.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Over a dozen boxes of 4"x5" Portra 160, dozens of 120 film color and black & white including Plus X and UltraColor, over fifty rolls of color and black & white 35mm film including UltraColor.

Unexposed film.

 

[Luckless]

This all sounds way, way, way too familiar. For a project I have been working on for years let me tell you it almost never works out how you envision, ever. Kits sound appealing from your end yes, but it must be very well designed to be successful - I would not approach this as an engineering problem at all. At this particular price point, you will find you market will want something all ready to go from the moment they take it out of the box. DIY Enthusiasts are always going to find a way to do it cheaper (thats part of the fun) for a relatively simple contraption like this. Remember - these folk who want automation don't have very much time...

So unless you want to run a charity or build to order on your off time (parts would have to be <100 to be worthwhile) or have some serious mass manufacturing prowess up your sleeve the price-point is going to be difficult.

Specific level of 'kit'ness is a fine balancing point. "Here's a bag of loose ICs and a blank PCB you can mask, etch, and drill yourself" is probably 'not a great idea' for the target audience. But "Here's the device that ships to you in a space saving flat pack box that you put together like something from Ikea, and plug bits into a finished PCB with colour coded and keyed headers" holds a lot more water for a sensible product.

 

[calebarchie]

^Exactly why this must be a designed solution, not an engineered one. There is a lot that goes into planning and providing this kind of thing - it is not a trivial feat at all. It is probably the hardest part of our projects just sayin' and remember all of this costs $$$

 

[John Koehrer]

I'm very on the fence about buying a developer machine. If it were small and compact enough to store easily, and the price low enough, then I might find room for one in my budget. While I don't mind the process of developing by hand, I'm also not super in love with it. I've often thought about designing a simple tilt-and-pour system with custom lids for my existing Paterson tanks - Effectively doing what I do now for all the setup and clean up, except I could walk away and deal with other things. Developing for me tends to feel like fairly wasted time due to the awkward bits of time I stand there with nothing to do besides waiting for a clock to advance to the next stage. So it becomes little more than "Glance at Facebook on my phone", but I'm usually caught up on anything interesting posted there by about halfway through developing a tank... And then I'm left kind of bored if I'm doing two or more tanks in a run.

Kit form might be a road to consider when looking to get the final price down towards $300. Contracting out pcb etching and populating is getting very cheap even for fairly low volumes, and can make for fairly decent 'some assembly required' projects. These days I honestly prefer to buy things that I know are made with common off the shelf parts like motors and the like. I consider it a value to know that I can order a common part from any vendor if something burns out rather than being stuck buying from the manufacturer who might close up shop.

I wouldn't want to etch & drill pcb's but the diy part sound like something I'd do. If it was a kit how would you 9or me) assemble a leak proof tank? People ,make diy fish tanks
with plexiglass & solvent and you can make precise parts for a kit. Assembling several smaller tanks from flat stock means greater risk of leakage.

Think it's a good idea though.

 

[Sirius Glass]

^Exactly why this must be a designed solution, not an engineered one. There is a lot that goes into planning and providing this kind of thing - it is not a trivial feat at all. It is probably the hardest part of our projects just sayin' and remember all of this costs $$$

Do you have a problem with engineers?

 

[Jim Jones]

I might go to an automated system if it was reliable, consistent, and not too expensive. Developing 80 rolls of B&W WAS a chore after a photo expedition to the Great American West.

 

[Cholentpot]

Unexposed film.

If we're going with unexposed...I got about 130 rolls of film in freezer along with 400 feet of cine HP5+ in 35mm. It's nice not having to worry about running out of stock.