If Kodak whithers our TMX's... Will it be "Hello Delta!" ?

JWMster · Dec 13, 2017

Reading some of the pessimists here, we seem to be in a replay of Kodak's earlier descent. Growing to love TMX films, I wonder about there forward availability. Soooooooooo..... I figure I ought to give Delta 400 a try. Ditto Delta 3200. At the short end, I've loved FP4+ and not shot TMX 100, so that hook was never set... and I'm not feeling the pull to replace FP4 with either Delta 100 or TMX 100.

My developer of choice these days is Perceptol... and I've got a slew of XTOL and ID-11 for more "at speed" development. But the way I read it here, folks seem to find Delta 400 a clear 2nd best relative to TMX-400... if not a third best with no second place finisher. TMX is just ALL THAT. I've shot plenty of HP5 in my day, but would say TMX seems just... miles more to my taste (not that I don't like HP5). Sooooo the question of whether Delta 400 can deliver the goods, and if so, should I just get started now... and learn this stuff? or is there even a remote possibility Kodak Alaris would ever sell off it's brands if it comes down to folding up shop? Thoughts?

Just to be clear: I'm not in conniptions. Just conjecturing, but as 400-speed shooter (usually at EI 200) I don't want to have to change too drastically on one hand, but am beginning to feel a pull to support ILFORD for the long game.

EdSawyer · Dec 13, 2017

B&H has TMX 120 back in stock now, just an FYI for those who have been waiting for it.

mike c · Dec 13, 2017

Just got 2 pro packs TMX100 120 from Freestlye yesterday.

RattyMouse · Dec 13, 2017

JWMster said:
Reading some of the pessimists here, we seem to be in a replay of Kodak's earlier descent. Growing to love TMX films, I wonder about there forward availability. Soooooooooo..... I figure I ought to give Delta 400 a try. Ditto Delta 3200. At the short end, I've loved FP4+ and not shot TMX 100, so that hook was never set... and I'm not feeling the pull to replace FP4 with either Delta 100 or TMX 100.

My developer of choice these days is Perceptol... and I've got a slew of XTOL and ID-11 for more "at speed" development. But the way I read it here, folks seem to find Delta 400 a clear 2nd best relative to TMX-400... if not a third best with no second place finisher. TMX is just ALL THAT. I've shot plenty of HP5 in my day, but would say TMX seems just... miles more to my taste (not that I don't like HP5). Sooooo the question of whether Delta 400 can deliver the goods, and if so, should I just get started now... and learn this stuff? or is there even a remote possibility Kodak Alaris would ever sell off it's brands if it comes down to folding up shop? Thoughts?

Just to be clear: I'm not in conniptions. Just conjecturing, but as 400-speed shooter (usually at EI 200) I don't want to have to change too drastically on one hand, but am beginning to feel a pull to support ILFORD for the long game.

Delta 400 is a fine film and one that I will use to shoot with instead of TMAX400. I am certain that there will be no loss in image quality with the added benefit of helping support the future of film. Unlike Kodak, film is the core business for Ilford/Harmon.

jim10219 · Dec 13, 2017

I'm going to continue to shoot TMX 100 until they quit making it. When that happens, I'll shoot something else. I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. Film is film. Sure there are differences between them, but those differences can be learned, just like everything else. So long as one film maker is left, I'm not gonna panic.

JWMster · Dec 13, 2017

Ratty: Kind of where I may be headed.... and kind of what I'm thinking, too. Picked up a 5-pack of Delta 400 to give it a go. What soup are you cookin' it in?

RattyMouse · Dec 13, 2017

JWMster said:
Ratty: Kind of where I may be headed.... and kind of what I'm thinking, too. Picked up a 5-pack of Delta 400 to give it a go. What soup are you cookin' it in?

I always used Ilford's DD-X to develop TMAX400 and will use this for Delta 400 and 3200 as well. It's a great developer. Give it a chance.

trendland · Dec 13, 2017

If you are afraid of having Tmax not so long from Kodak you would be smart to buying it now in bulks.Because it isn't cheaper today.YOU will see more price increasements one can imagine.And freezed bw film will last a while

with regards

trendland · Dec 13, 2017

"of buying it".....with regards

Craig · Dec 13, 2017

Try both and see what you like. This isn't a question where there is only one right answer.

JWMster · Dec 13, 2017

This is all helpful. Reading here and there, I guess you start to see so many of us using TMX and lovin' it, you think no one loves Delta. Good to see some do, and the opinion is more even than what we see in print. Thanks!

FWIW, I've been building a supply of TMAX in 5 packs, and to Kodak's credit, it's a tad cheaper than Delta 400 from B&H.

Craig · Dec 13, 2017

My favourite combination at the moment is Delta 100 in Xtol. I have had some greats negs off that.

David Luttmann · Dec 13, 2017

As I mainly do street now, and want a grainy look....once Kodak ditched 3200 speed, I switched to Delta 3200 a push using DDX. This is rated at 2500 and pushed to 6400. Slightly heavier agitation to increase the grain. I have used Delta 100 in 4x5 a fair bit, in DDX, and the grain is ultra fine and acutance is great. HP5 and TriX both push nicely for me as well if one prefers non T grain.

Peter Schrager · Dec 13, 2017

Craig said:
My favourite combination at the moment is Delta 100 in Xtol. I have had some greats negs off that.

I like the tonality of delta 100..seems to glow in overcast rainy scenes
Otherwise it's tmy400 all the way

Cholentpot · Dec 13, 2017

I've tried Delta 400 after shooting Tmax400 for a while. Didn't do it for me. Hope it sticks around.

1kgcoffee · Dec 13, 2017

I don't see kodaks film business going anywhere, but they might drop tmax if its unprofitable. Anyways I am more worried about losing Acros as far as t-grain films go.

jm94 · Dec 14, 2017

I remember they dropped TMZ (Tmax 3200)in 2012, which was one of my favourite low light films, i much preferred it to the ilford delta 3200. They seem to be working bringing back ektachrome, which if they are shows they must have some interest in their film business, and the tmax series are the best B&W ones they have in my opinion, i prefer them to Tri-X.

JWMster · Dec 14, 2017

I hope TMX sticks around, too. But Kodak and Kodak Alaris are far from out of the woods It's good to have an alternative. I've like FP4+ but not tried TMX100... which I may give a shot. Funny how I didn't like HP5+ in 35mm, but it seems to be more forgiving and more interesting in MF.
TMX400 just stepped in with a "wow", and I've been shooting that and letting stocks of the rest fall away. Simpler to reduce the variables. And then Kodak goes and starts bleeding money like it can't get it's act together. Harmon Technology is private enough that we don't know how they're doing, but it's possible the pressures there are considerably more difficult than we imagine... since most of us imagine everything is hunky dory there. I imagine resources are scarcer than we think, and capital investment for replacing old hardware needed hard to find. Despite Kodak's announcement of Ektar.... the continuing financial problems do not bode well, and the drain of talent over the past number of years throughout the industry no doubt of more concern than we may imagine as well. Film isn't the only industry where aging is taking a toll.... the character of so many services and service providers is as well - my business among many others. The analog world may be stylish here and there in a certain funky vogue, but as a career, it's narrowed attraction in all fields is increasingly an issue. We would be lucky to have it become the Next Big Thing.

RattyMouse · Dec 14, 2017

JWMster said:
I hope TMX sticks around, too. But Kodak and Kodak Alaris are far from out of the woods It's good to have an alternative. I've like FP4+ but not tried TMX100... which I may give a shot. Funny how I didn't like HP5+ in 35mm, but it seems to be more forgiving and more interesting in MF.
TMX400 just stepped in with a "wow", and I've been shooting that and letting stocks of the rest fall away. Simpler to reduce the variables. And then Kodak goes and starts bleeding money like it can't get it's act together. Harmon Technology is private enough that we don't know how they're doing, but it's possible the pressures there are considerably more difficult than we imagine... since most of us imagine everything is hunky dory there. I imagine resources are scarcer than we think, and capital investment for replacing old hardware needed hard to find. Despite Kodak's announcement of Ektar.... the continuing financial problems do not bode well, and the drain of talent over the past number of years throughout the industry no doubt of more concern than we may imagine as well. Film isn't the only industry where aging is taking a toll.... the character of so many services and service providers is as well - my business among many others. The analog world may be stylish here and there in a certain funky vogue, but as a career, it's narrowed attraction in all fields is increasingly an issue. We would be lucky to have it become the Next Big Thing.

That's a phenomenally interesting point. How does Kodak retain the talented chemists and engineers needed to keep new film development going? Kodak is in seriously bad financial condition right now, downgraded by 3 different analysts due to the strong potential of another bankruptcy. If you are an experienced technical person, at some point you decide that your personal future is in jeopardy and you begin to look elsewhere for stable employment. I'd be curious to know if Kodak even had an R & D film staff at this point.

Loooong ago (about 20 years) I used to drive by a Kodak facility located on the Illinois Research & Development Corridor. I drove by that big Kodak building for many years, wishing that I worked in that lab instead of the lab where my job was. Of course today I'm grateful that I never made the transition over to Kodak because that building was demolished once Kodak went bankrupt. A lot of jobs were lost there for sure.

Ko.Fe. · Dec 14, 2017

Kodak has 100 (TMX) and 400 (TMY-2) a.k.a. T-MAX 100 and T-MAX 400. Here is no 400TMX, if I'm not mistaken.

100 TMAX is very different film from FP4+. Even on prints. 100 TMAX is if you want your film images looks like digital BW and FP4+ is classic grain film. IMO.
Delta 400 is kind of T-MAX 400 wanna be. IMO.

I was able to enjoy TMAX modern films before their price went up. Switched to Ilford due to this. In November HP5+ became more expensive. So, I have Kentmere 400 for 200 at better price for now... It is ISO 3200 pushable.

Pioneer · Dec 14, 2017

A few years back I was very committed to shooting Efke 25. Probably 95% of my film use was with this film.

When they went under a few years ago I was devastated. I bought a huge amount of it and put it on ice. I am still using it today. I'll run out at some point but not yet.

But...when that happened I swore that this would not happen to me again. So now I buy and shoot all kinds of films, some very inexpensive, some far too expensive. I have learned to expose and develop a number of different films to get the look I want at that point. So now, unless they all go out of business at once, I will not end up in the same place I was before.

I also found out that there are a ton of good films out there and it just takes a bit of time experimenting with different exposures and developers to get most of them to do what you want. There have been a few duds, but not many.

But, though I keep looking, I still have not found a replacement for Efke 25. I am glad I still have a pretty good stash. I keep hoping that someone will buy the formula for that emulsion and start coating it again. Hasn't happened yet.

DREW WILEY · Dec 14, 2017

TMY400 is like an Olympic sprinter getting off the starting block when it comes to the toe of the curve onto the straight line of crisp shadow value separation. Delta 400 is like a snail. No resemblance between them other than advertised ASA.

dante · Dec 14, 2017

If T-Max is your favorite, use it until they stop making it. Then when they say they're going to stop making it, buy 100 rolls of it. That way, you never have less than a year to prepare for the exhaustion of the product.

And then move on with life. I don't get the point of existential angst about a film. If it goes away, you'll learn to use the next one, just as your grandmother told you that you can learn to love anyone. It's not as if learning to shoot or develop a particular b/w film requires hundreds of hours of time investment. The medium is highly fault-tolerant, and even at conservative development starting points, it's hard to get unusable results on your way to re-perfecting your technique. And if you are really hung up on TMY, and can't stomach any other film, you can buy a Leica M246, which has pretty much identical color sensitivity and linear output.

As to price, if you're shooting medium format, a buck or two a roll should not make a difference, since the cost of film is nothing compared to the value of your time and the capturing of irreproducible results. It's a little like people who shoot at tin cans with a centerfire rifle. Medium format is a not a volume game.

Dante

DREW WILEY · Dec 14, 2017

MF roll film is cheap. Try filling your freezer with 8X10 film. Glad I did before it tripled in price. And TMY400 is something I shoot in 35mm, 120 roll film, 4X5, and 8X10. It's the most versatile b&w film I've ever used. But I'm very comfortable with Ilford films too. As for the late great Efke 25, I printed some of that recently. .. true 12 stop range without resorting to compensating or minus development.

Alex400 · Dec 15, 2017

Fingers crossed Kodak stays with us for a long time.

I keep a score of my films updated through tests and regular shoots. Kodak is still at the top.

If Kodak whithers our TMX's... Will it be "Hello Delta!" ?

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