Ideas or Pictures?

[Two23]

I don't worry so much about the subject matter. For me, it's all about Light. Seeing Light and using it well.


Kent in SD

 

[markbarendt]

I keep going through the "what do I want to be when I grow up thing?" I expected to know long before I turned 54. :confused:

I have the most fun photographing things with personlity; people, dogs, ...

Right now I'm mostly in it for me. I do hang my work for sale now and again but it's not really priced to make a lot of sales.

On style it's mostly f/2.8 & be there on 35mm, f/4 on the RB. When I need a lot of DOF I'll stop down to f/4, f/5.6 on the RB.

Pictorial and SF work with a well defined subject is most interesting to me.

I do look at a lot of other people's work for inspiration. Much of this is also to learn something, whether that is about lighting or composition or whatever else, I don't care.

 

[ccross]

Thomas,

I think this is a great thread topic and have been wondering about similar things over the past little while. I've been invited by a friend of my wife's to join their little art show/sale in early December (they are a group of three to five painters that host a show/sale twice a year). At first, I thought 'cool...awesome'. But, then I started thinking about some of the things you mentioned. Flipping through my photographs it really sunk in that I am doing this for myself. There isn't really a comprehensive vision, just a bunch of stuff I am interested in.

I really like some of my images and the few people I've shared them with seem to really like them too, but I don't really have a clear vision for this work of mine. I'm struggling with what 'art' is and if I'm even making it. I never really considered selling my work, but with that potential looming, I find myself asking a lot of those philosophical questions.

Thanks,
Craig

 

[ajmiller]

Pictures at the moment but wanting to work on ideas/ concepts.
Greg Davis' and Bob Carnies' posts describe exactly where I want to be.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

If you were a model maker or potter or ceramacist, would your outlook change — at all? Great art often stems from the most mediocre of ideas. How you apply it and with what frame of mind determines the outcome.

I know of many artists in many disciplines: a few do it for the love of it. Others do it professionally to put bread on the table, others still, drift on as a hobby. Me, I've done it professionally, finished with that after 20 years and now simply do it to please nobody but myself — with the end result to make a lasting, memorable image. Your doubts are well-founded, but you need to believe in yourself and what and why you are doing it and never look back or question it.

 

[Bill Burk]

...if I am honest in my photography, and truly photograph what I want to photograph...

Then you have accomplished something worthwhile!

 

[Mark Fisher]

One of the artists I admire most is Miles Davis: his music changed and evolved over time until his death. I saw him perform when he must have been 70 and his work still seemed fresh. That is what I hope to do. I want my photographs to continue to interest me and hopefully others, but not be static. Part of the joy of being a photographer for me is to continually look at the world in different ways. As much as I admire some great photographers like Michael Kenna (whose work I really like), I wouldn't want to have a consistent body of work over decades. I'd get bored. I think it is difficult to break into the gallery world without having a consistent look that is finely honed. Thankfully my day job is good enough to allow me the freedom (or lack of discipline depending how you look at it) to do a body of work for a few years and move on.

Thomas -- thanks for posting the topic. This forced me to articulate what's been in the back of my mind for awhile.

 

[Bob Carnie]

This is a printers worst nightmare, knowing a print will rock if it is done differently to what the client wants, therefore when printing for myself I really try to please one person and take others opinions off the table.
The best printers for others that I know are chamelions and are able to change styles and looks easily to move in directions their clients want.
But for one's personal work I truly believe it has to come from your heart and make it the way you think it should be, some will get it , others will not.

Perhaps, but sometimes it's hard not to second guess yourself, even when printing. That little voice telling you to up the contrast and more people will like it. I'll say this much, most people like to say "screw what anyone else thinks", but it takes some serious balls to believe that to the core.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I believe Joseph Sudek work is so well admired because he worked with three tones, grey , grey and grey and pulled it off wonderfully, imagine if he listened to others who wanted a complete range of tones.

 

[jp498]

I shoot mostly for myself, the way I want, but I'm not a purist about it.

I've done some weddings for money, and that's a mix of being chosen because they liked my work and being willing to shoot what's on their list and do it well. I don't seek out weddings; they sometimes come to me.

I also tend to be prepared for photos more than most people, by the virtue of both experience and having more gear in my car or on my person than other people. So I'll sometimes be shooting some stuff for family or friends for my fun or their favor. I don't worry about whether they'll like it. Such consumers of photos are typically not fussy and are easily pleased.

I mostly have photo equipment, film, expenses, darkroom, for doing what I want with photography. It has other uses as well, as has been described.

I go along with many of the others here. It's too confusing and not pertinent to worry about what other people think when I'm doing photography for myself. If it conveys something, great. Other times, I'll create an image for an abstract composition or to learn something historical and expect no particularly relevant response from people.

I'm not into contests. I think Tillman Crane has written a good blog article about selection versus rejection with regard to competitive photography.
http://www.tillmancrane.com/news/musing-october-2011/
I'm used to having solid reasons for not fitting in, and it's no surprise than images we create don't fit in always either.

 

[Curt]

For me, it's all about self satisfaction. When I was young I dreampt of being an artist. Life happened to get in the way of that and beat it out of me. I managed to get to a point in my life where I can focus on my desire to form art, and shoot to find the artist in me. If people find my work appealing and want to own some of it, fine and dandy. I have managed to sell some of my more mainstream looking photos, and that fuels the artist in me even more.

That's creepy, I had to look and see if I had written it earlier. Rick that pretty much, exactly, sums up my point if view.

When I was young I always wanted to create and additionally I wanted to know how things worked. I have a need to find simplicity in the complex. It seems that the direction I took was to create an abstraction out of simple subjects. Kind of the opposite of simplifying the complex.

I would say it's like creating images where the viewer must look long enough to figure it out. Like a kind of visual puzzle. I've not put any of this in words until right now, it's like discovery for me.

I enjoy all kinds if images of all kinds of subject matter. I guess I just enjoy and crave all kinds of art. I'm not going to reread this, I might decide to delete it all.

Paul Strand said "have something to say". Doesn't every image have something to say?

 

[Curt]

Salute, I was in the US Navy and I am a combat veteran of the Vietnam war.

 

[Curt]

Diwan is an incredible person, I've met few people like him.

 

[gandolfi]

I make my images firstly for my self - I like to play with my models, and I like to play in the darkroom.

However, when finished with my prints, the opinions of others suddenly means a lot..
In general people have been kind to me - but I don't know whether this is because they are well bread,,,, (If you can't say something nice, then quep quiet..).
I have submitted images for exhibitions on and off during my life, and I have never been accepted in one of those... which might explain my lack of confidence in my images.....

I have just begun a "project", which might prove the most difficult, mentally, in my life:

Just two portraits...
But the "problem" is, that the two portraits will be of my headmaster and his wife, from when I was a student here at the school...
The portraits are ment to be the "official portraits" of those two people, and they are ment to be hanged at the school "for eternity"....

I am so nerveus about this. Who am I to think I can make such images for the future? What will the current members of the border of the school think?

Time will tell - for now this project remains a secret between the two people in the portraits and me....
I leave an open dor to get out of, if it proves too difficult.. (typical me)

If these portraits were for the persons portrayed, then I'd have no problems.. This is bigger than me ,I feel..

So here I am: Ithought of the portraits - I have now photographed the people - whether it will be a good ending is up to other people... (or me...)

So easy to be "world champion" in your own house....

 

[Bill Burk]

the story or idea is more important than any individual image. Trying to walk around and find images is IMO a waste of energy, but walking around with a concept or story to tell and capturing images that tell the story is not.

...wanting to work on ideas/ concepts...

The idea need not be big. Today for example, I am going to take pictures of the kids playing soccer. My idea is not to look for outstanding goal shots but kids in control of the ball. Maybe throw in a Grand-dad, mom, kid picture. My preferred work is nature photography so this is outside my comfort zone.

---

Perhaps, but sometimes it's hard not to second guess yourself, even when printing.

This is a printers worst nightmare, knowing a print will rock if it is done differently to what the client wants.

A story to illustrate...

I got a chance to share my darkroom with pbrendanc this week. He came by to see if he could make sharper prints from his negatives.

To match his proofs would have required Grade 4. But since Galerie doesn't come in that grade, we worked with Grade 3.

I usually print full-frame but Brendan prefers a clean edge, so I gave him control of the easel, enlarger height and focus. He was confident in the crop he wanted and the focus was right-on.

We pulled a couple test strips, discussed the tones and how they would look after dry-down and made a firm decision about main exposure and dodging. First print was "fine" but highlights were a little hot, so we decided to burn them in.

There was no second-guessing, it was "homing-in" and the decisions were well-founded and contributed to improvements.

We worked on a second negative and I saw a light edge that had to be cropped out. Otherwise again Brendan did the crop and we picked the test strip exposure that looked right. I committed us to two prints straight exposure.

The prints do not match the proofs, which looked great as they were. But I believe the new prints we made will stand up on their own.

 

[removed account4]

i try not to think much about what i am doing. over thinking for me is like forcing
and for me at least if i force something, it never works. this is true for me no matter
what it is i am doing ... portraits, or documentary photographs for a client, or just
having fun with a paper negative box camera ...

 

[MattKing]

I make my images firstly for my self - I like to play with my models, and I like to play in the darkroom.

However, when finished with my prints, the opinions of others suddenly means a lot..
In general people have been kind to me - but I don't know whether this is because they are well bread,,,, (If you can't say something nice, then quep quiet..).
I have submitted images for exhibitions on and off during my life, and I have never been accepted in one of those... which might explain my lack of confidence in my images.....

I have just begun a "project", which might prove the most difficult, mentally, in my life:

Just two portraits...
But the "problem" is, that the two portraits will be of my headmaster and his wife, from when I was a student here at the school...
The portraits are ment to be the "official portraits" of those two people, and they are ment to be hanged at the school "for eternity"....

I am so nerveus about this. Who am I to think I can make such images for the future? What will the current members of the border of the school think?

Time will tell - for now this project remains a secret between the two people in the portraits and me....
I leave an open dor to get out of, if it proves too difficult.. (typical me)

If these portraits were for the persons portrayed, then I'd have no problems.. This is bigger than me ,I feel..

So here I am: Ithought of the portraits - I have now photographed the people - whether it will be a good ending is up to other people... (or me...)

So easy to be "world champion" in your own house....

Emil:

You probably already know this, but I'll mention it anyways.

The fact that you are concerned, and that you worry, is good!

It means that all your considerable faculties are focused on the task at hand, and that you, yourself won't let yourself do anything that wouldn't be up to your own high standards.

I'm sure that the results will hold up tremendously well throughout the future.

Just one suggestion though - for portraits like this, unless the subjects really insist, or your school is really different, it is probably best if they wear clothes for the portraits .

All the best,

 

[gandolfi]

Just one suggestion though - for portraits like this, unless the subjects really insist, or your school is really different, it is probably best if they wear clothes for the portraits .

All the best,

hehe - yes - but what an idea though.....

Portraits already taken - now remains the hard part - to make them into images...

thanks for your words.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Thanks again, everybody, for contributing to the thread.

I don't think that having an idea about WHAT to photograph is necessarily bad. My opinion is that it's good to have little projects, goals, or portfolios to work on. It's absolutely a good thing.

What I really was asking was more about subscribing to a broader idea or movement. For example, you see someone like Ralph Gibson printing very hard contrast with massive visual impact, while you see pictorialists priting with soft contrast and basically all mid-tones for a more painterly result. I know what I prefer, but that's besides the point. I appreciate the work of others, but it doesn't mean I'm going to go make my pictures look like them. I'm going to go make my pictures look what I want them to look like, based on my own ideas and imagination.

Either way, I'm pretty sure that moving forward it will be all about following my heart, by doing what feels right. That's the only way I can stay happy with this.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I make my images firstly for my self - I like to play with my models, and I like to play in the darkroom.

However, when finished with my prints, the opinions of others suddenly means a lot..

Hej Emil,

So what is it about the opinions of others that matter so much? Please don't take this as a disagreement. I am just curious.

I am 100% sure that the portraits will be amazing.

- Thomas

 

[ChristopherCoy]

i try not to think much about what i am doing. over thinking for me is like forcing and for me at least if i force something, it never works. this is true for me no matter what it is i am doing ... portraits, or documentary photographs for a client, or just having fun with a paper negative box camera ...

I liked this response. I skipped a few pages, but this one caught my eye.

I'm trying to do the same thing lately. For the longest time I have viewed other peoples photo blogs and work, and tried to find something that I might like to use. Whether it was a pose, lighting, angle, negative space, or whatever else caught my eye. I also tried to remember things that I have heard instructors or teachers or other more successful photographers have said during workshops. All of that information combined lead to a very cluttered mindset and the resulting work I found was something that *I* doubted.

Over the last few months I have made a conscious decision to NOT look at other peoples work, to NOT surf through photo blogs, and to NOT think about what that instructor said about shadows or other techniques. I've tried to go back to the days of shooting what catches my eye, and what makes me happy when its printed.

Whether its actually true or not has yet to be determined, but it seems that my creativity is certainly flowing more freely lately. I'm certainly having more fun, thats for sure!

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Either way, I'm pretty sure that moving forward it will be all about following my heart, by doing what feels right. That's the only way I can stay happy with this.

See my response above.

 

[gandolfi]

Hej Emil,

So what is it about the opinions of others that matter so much?

- Thomas

Hi Thomas.

Upbringing, I think. "Breeding" (?)

I'm from Denmark, and as you might know, we over here has this "Law of Jante", which bacically tells everybody to keep a low profile - and one shouldn't dare presuming to be "better" than others.

A classic Danish approach...

So we're somewhat taught to be humble - or pretend to be..
And we're worried on how others might think of us - especially when not present..

I am a trained musician, and after my graduation I first entered, and then cancelled several competitions for places in symphony orchestres..

For two reasons:
How would I feel if I didn't win?
But more important: what would happen, if I did win? (the idea was, that the rest of the orchestra proberly quickly would realize I was nothing after all....)

I have refused exhibitions on the same reason: what if somebody, that actually know what he/she is doing saw my junk?

Ahh well... I have learned to live with it.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Hi Thomas.

Upbringing, I think. "Breeding" (?)

I'm from Denmark, and as you might know, we over here has this "Law of Jante", which bacically tells everybody to keep a low profile - and one shouldn't dare presuming to be "better" than others.

A classic Danish approach...

So we're somewhat taught to be humble - or pretend to be..
And we're worried on how others might think of us - especially when not present..

I am a trained musician, and after my graduation I first entered, and then cancelled several competitions for places in symphony orchestres..

For two reasons:
How would I feel if I didn't win?
But more important: what would happen, if I did win? (the idea was, that the rest of the orchestra proberly quickly would realize I was nothing after all....)

I have refused exhibitions on the same reason: what if somebody, that actually know what he/she is doing saw my junk?

Ahh well... I have learned to live with it.

Emil,

I understand where you're coming from; I was brought up the same way and used to feel exactly how you do. Inside I knew very well that I was a very capable person, good with my hands, a good head on my shoulders, fairly blessed with strength and agility, but like you say I would never act like I did.

It wasn't until 2001 when I moved to the United States that I started to realize that it was OK to be confident. While I try to remain humble, I don't mind confidence, and if someone asks about photography, for example, I have no problem telling them that I am pretty good. Someone might ask me if I'm a strong bicyclist, and I will not deny that I am pretty strong. I guess what I'm saying is that culturally my attitude changed, because this society is more accepting of confidence.

And, your pictures would look wonderful in any exhibition. I really mean that. You are one of the people out of all photographers that truly inspire me.

- Thomas

 

[Gim]

Emil,

I can't think of anybody here that is more original than you. I always look forward to seeing what your up to and wish I had some of your vision. Junk?? No, I make junk.

Best,
Jim