I'd like a Leica but ...

Lee L · Mar 18, 2009

Richard Jepsen said:
The CLE fixes all the issues the CL's had.

And introduced some things that some people don't like. The CLE has no metering at all in manual exposure mode and has a difficult and clumsy switch between manual and auto exposure modes. It also brought in averaging metering as opposed to selective metering, and doesn't hang vertically on a strap, hidden in the crook of your elbow, all important drawbacks for the way I often work with a small rangefinder.

I say this for completeness. The CLE is a very nice camera in it's own right. It's just not a CL in important ways that could be considered drawbacks. I think the CLE shutter may be quieter, which might be the lack of a swinging meter arm.

Lee

nocrop · Mar 24, 2009

Mark Fisher said:
For $500, you might be able to get a Leica CL which is definitely smaller than another M camera.....or a Canon 7 or Canon P.

My M6 and Canon P are about the same size. Just saying, in case anyone cares.

nocrop · Mar 25, 2009

Oops. My former M6 and current Canon P. Was saying.

Bill Harrison · Mar 25, 2009

I too carry a Leica lllF in my pocket. The only Barnak I own, just for this purpose. It has a Summar or a VC f2.5 35mm color scopar(paid $145.00 like new, very sharp and smaller than the Summar) Easier to preset focus at small f stops making it fast as hell( Barnacks are slow, as the same place I just mentioned, to focus). Keep it in a baggie to avoid pocket lint, etc and makes it easier to slide out. Might try a VC 15mm w/ finder soon... Both lenses and lllF just under $500.00 & when the opportunity presents itself, priceless.

Jimothy · Mar 25, 2009

I have an M6 and an M2. The M2 is a much under-rated camera as it was seen as a poor man's M3. it has bright line finders for 35, 50 and 90. There's no built in meter so its gonna be an accessory meter in the accessory shoe or a hand held meter. Or just use sunny sixteen. Because the M2 is so under-rated its usually cheaper than an M3 .

Just my thrupence worth.

hughitb · Apr 7, 2009

Just sold some stuff so now have approx $1000 in my fund. Yippee!

I am sorely tempted by the Leica CL mostly because it seems such a compact little package but .... I am gonna narrow my choices a bit by saying that I have decided I really want Aperture Priority exposure in this thing.

The best option in that case seems to me to be getting a new Bessa 2a/3a/4a. I am kind of torn between these three though.

I really like the idea of the 1:1 viewfinder on the 3a. That really sounds great. But then, the only real difference between this and the 2a is the 1:1. I can't decide if it's worth the extra money ...

Also, ideally I would like a lens a bit wider than the 40mm and the 4a is geared towards wider lenses so maybe I should get that. But then I would be sacrificing the 1:1.

If I mount a wider lens on the 3a it just means that I won't see everything in shot within the viewfinder, right? I can probably live with that ....

It would be great if I lived somewhere I could walk into a shop and actually pick up these things and look at them ...

Bill Harrison · Apr 7, 2009

Remember, this is a fixed cost expense. Your going to "spend" a lot of time behind this viewfinder/camera... now's not the time to be tight with the initial cost, think how little an hour the real cost is going to be, over the time you and this beautiful body will be intimate... what's going to snag the best image is what counts. Bill

nicefor88 · Apr 8, 2009

Hi hughitb,

I agree with previous suggestions that the M6 would be a great choice. Well, it's about 1000-1200 bucks but they are worth it, believe me!

I use a M6 TTL (TTL means here that there's a dedicated TTL Leica flash you can attach to this calera, that is the SF 20 - works great). The M6 has a very precise built-in meter that beats some of the latest Nikon film cameras in terms of accuracy, especially in the so-called difficult light conditions (backlight for instance).

M6 is strong, solid, you can't kill it to the task. It is very pleasant to use, soft controls, silent shutter (really a big change from noisy mirror SLRs).

The 35mm Summicron is the best lens to have if you just want one lens only. The 50mm is less versatile. The aspherical gives great results, the f2 version is expensive enough, why spend another 2000 bucks more on the 1,4? Just to gain one stop??

I bought a M6 lately on ebay for 980 euro (about 1400 dollars) but it is in superb condition, no dent, no rubbing. A M6 in ggod/fair condition usually goes for 1100 dollars.

Just a great camera to own and enjoy, enjoy every frame!

Good luck!

Graham.b · Apr 8, 2009

There is time's like now, why i bought a Leica. The buyer's to me that is are trying hard to convince us of what they have bought is a good buy. Or is it they are trying even harder to convince themselves it was the right thing to do, even though what they have bought is 20+ years old, and know idear how it has been treated. Not to say it was a good buy in that year it was introduced but time has played it's time on any thing that man has made.

I would not say no to one, but every time i get to that point in putting the money down, i think of the time laps, and my little Bessa and how she has worked. But as all ready said the 645 RF will knock spots of the 35. So i will stay with my Bessa and my RF645 and other's in my collection.

Graham

KajF · Apr 8, 2009

I have a cheap M2 with a collapsable Summicron - the camera is marked, but fully functional, controls is very smooth.

The lens havs a slight haze but also fully functional.

I payed aroung 500$ for it ,an would part with it for the same amount.

KajF · Apr 8, 2009

Or what about a Konica Hexar?

RPippin · Apr 8, 2009

Have you ever considered a Zorki 4? Cheap Russian Leica copy and lots of great lenses to choose from. Check them out on Fedka.com. You can pick up a Zorki 4K with a great choice of lenses for under $150.00. If you don't like rangefinders your not out a lot and your guaranteed to enjoy it. Good and solid, you can drive nails with it. I've been shooting medium format and large format (4X5) and keep a Zorki with me at all times. The images I've gotten with mine have been razor sharp.

hughitb · Apr 9, 2009

KajF said:
Or what about a Konica Hexar?

You know I was browsing around in a camera shop today and had a look at a few Leicas. I'm not going to buy one but wanted to at least hold one in my hand. Very nice but I'm still not going to buy one. But anyway, they happened to have a used Konica Hexar RF there as well. It was very nice too and has the AE etc. Pretty compact. But, there's no lens so I would have to pick one up. They are looking for 699 euros for the body which seems a bit steep .....

If I could haggle them down a bit and pick up a good lens for 200-300 euros this could be a contender ....

John Koehrer · Apr 9, 2009

Your priority has changed slightly from the OP..There are only two Leicas that give you Auto. The M7 and the Minolta CLE. The CL was mechanical.
The Hexar I think is the way Leica should have gone. Auto exposure, quiet film advance & swing open back. Too radical for them I guess.
If it were my money(and it isn't) I'd go for the Hexar & if you have to put a little more $$ in for a lens I'd do it.

Vanishing Point Ent. · Apr 11, 2009

If you have to have an M3, you can add a Voigtlander Clip-On meter. Go to www.CameraQuest.com

Personally, I went with a Black Contax G2, set consisting of the camera. For the all black lenses: 21 mm f 2.8 Biogon, 28 mm f 2.8 Biogon, 45 mm f 2.0 Planar & a 90 mm f 2.8 Sonnar. All of this is Super Sharp & the AF, is fast, accurate & great in low light.

I've just added a Black Bessa L camera. For the all black lenses: 12 mm f 5.6 & I'm looking to get a 15 mm f 4.5.
For flash, which has to fit in a separate bag, a Sunpak 120J TTL, on a Stroboframe or Newton, Flash Bracket. Powered by a Quantum Turbo.
The 2 camera kits fit into 2 little Waist bags.

For a Point & Shoot, Get an Olympus XA w an A16 flash.

hughitb · Apr 13, 2009

So, now I have an opportunity to get a mint condition M6 for a reasonable price. I know it doesn't have AE but maybe I can live with that. If I went for this I would have to throw in some more money (translation: sell something else) to get a lens.

He has a 35mm Summicron f2 that is going to be way out of my league price-wise.

However, he also has a 35mm Summaron that he says is f2 but I think when he goes and digs it out he will realise it is f2.8. Now this is a fairly old lens from what I can gather by looking into it on the net. He's talking 3-400 euros for this. I am thinking I might get a better lens (more contrasty, sharper, lower aperture) by picking up a new Voigtlander of some description for roughly the same price. Any opinion on this would be much appreciated .....

Rolleiflexible · Apr 13, 2009

hughitb said:
So, now I have an opportunity to get a mint condition M6 for a reasonable price. I know it doesn't have AE but maybe I can live with that. If I went for this I would have to throw in some more money (translation: sell something else) to get a lens.

He has a 35mm Summicron f2 that is going to be way out of my league price-wise.

However, he also has a 35mm Summaron that he says is f2 but I think when he goes and digs it out he will realise it is f2.8. Now this is a fairly old lens from what I can gather by looking into it on the net. He's talking 3-400 euros for this. I am thinking I might get a better lens (more contrasty, sharper, lower aperture) by picking up a new Voigtlander of some description for roughly the same price. Any opinion on this would be much appreciated .....

Hugh, have you considered a Summitar? It's an f/2
that replaced the Summar and was the Summicron's
precursor. To my eye, a Summitar's a great straddle
-- it combines the resolution and overall improved
performance of the Summicron (improved contrast
wide-open, no vignetting, etc.) with some of the
Summar's signature off the focal plane.

The best part is that they are plentiful and cheap.
The coatings are durable and they have aged well.
Be aware that there are two versions -- earlier
Summitars had circular apertures, later ones are
hexagonal. My experience is that they give very
different looks, with the earlier lenses giving much
smoother bokeh than the later models.

hughitb · Apr 16, 2009

Thanks Sanders. I have checked out the Summitar and it seems to be a 50mm. I'd like something a bit wider than that.

The situation is now this. I am buying the M6 from this guy (subject to inspection obviously). The price is definitely right.

So I need a lens. I made him a way-too-low offer on the 35mm Summicron which he very politely turned down. I don't think he really wants to sell it to be honest and certainly not at the paltry price I was suggesting

However, he offered me the following:

Leica CL with 40mm Summicron f2 for 400 euros (he doesn't want to separate the 40mm lens from the Leica CL and sell them separately). This seems great but the rangefinder on the CL is not working. So really I would be buying a 40mm Summicron f2 for 400 euros (however having said that, the CL body can still be used - I would just have to focus by guessing distance which would not be a bad thing for me to learn how to do anyway).

Alternative would be to but a new Voigtlander 40mm Nocton for almost exactly the same price (when shipping and import duty are taken into account). Or obviously a 35m or wider Voigtlander for a little more.

It's a tricky one - I have suddenly jumped from not wanting a Leica (really) to possible ending up with two ....

edit: actually Sanders - did you mean Summarit? They seem to come in 35mm ... but still big bucks

John Koehrer · Apr 17, 2009

I'd pass on the CL at that kind of money. You can zone focus but why?
Bessa had a couple of zone focus cameras in LTM. Do that & get the Nokton.

lens_hacker · Apr 22, 2009

The Summitar is 50mm LTM, and would need an M-Adpater. For the price of the lens and adapter, a Summicron-M in 50mm is worth considering.

The 35/2.8 Summaron is quite good, and 300euro's would be a decent price. It is lower contrast than "newer" lenses. That is particularly nice if shooting B&W.

The Cosina lenses are good value for the money. Is the 35/1.7 aspheric available at a decent cost these days?

A Canon 35/2 is also worth looking for. I just picked one up, and it is fast, sharp, and contrasty. It is LTM, and will need an M-Adapter. It should run less than the Summaron.

elekm · Apr 22, 2009

A 50mm Summaron isn't worth 300-400 euros. You can do better on a Summitar. Someone here said they're plentiful, and that's correct. Pick up an LTM to M adapter, and you're good to go.

nemo999 · Apr 23, 2009

elekm said:
A 50mm Summaron isn't worth 300-400 euros. You can do better on a Summitar. Someone here said they're plentiful, and that's correct. Pick up an LTM to M adapter, and you're good to go.

A 50mm Summaron is priceless, because it would be totally unique! To put it another way, there's no such lens - what did you mean?

stealthman_1 · Apr 24, 2009

Please don't let AE be the factor that makes your decision. AE is a wonderful thing when shooting SLRs, but you really, really can live without it. Leica's are often shot when lightmeters perform worst, in low light with bright point sources, just learn what EV4,5 and 7 light look like and don't worry about lightmeters or AE. The M6 is a wonderful body that should never let you down. Stealth shooting will have you never looking through the finder and zone focusing anyway. Good luck in your quest!

jmcd · Apr 24, 2009

The 35/2.5 color skopar from Voigtlander is an excellent, compact, and sharp lens and can be bought new in very clean condition for around $200. Attach to an M camera with a LTM to M adapter. Just a suggestion.

lens_hacker · Apr 24, 2009

There are two models of Summaron, the 35/3.5 and the 35/2.8. The 35/2.8 is much better than the 35/3.5, and is on par with my Nikkor 3.5cm F2.5. The F3.5 version is more common, and goes for less. The results that I've seen from it are not as good as the newer F2.8 version. If you can get a 35/2 Summicron for close to that price, go for it. Otherwise the 35/2.8 Summaron is worth looking at.

I'd like a Leica but ...

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