"I want a simple SLR" says my 15y/o son. Err, no you don't!

[BrianVS]

I learned aperture/shutter/focus with a Minolta Hi-Matic-9, in 1969, at age 11. Spent a whole Summer mowing lawns for that camera. Bought the first SLR at 14- knew what shutter speed, aperture, focus were at that point.
The Minolta has full-program mode, and manual mode using the EV system. I learned how to set exposure using the EV number indicated by the meter, and choosing Shutter-Speed/F-Stop combinations by the EV number. At that age- tried for fast shutter speeds, which gave narrow DOF. The split-image rangefinder made focus easy, the parallax corrected frames certainly helped with composition. You could see outside the frames, and no shutter blackout. Still have the camera, it still works- almost 50 years later. Having a fixed lens, a 45/1.7- did not mind it when learning. Of course by High School, bought a 400/6.3 Tele-Astranar preset and was shooting Football games for the yearbook.

ANYWAY- the camera selected is probably not as important as the use that it gets, and that depends mostly on your son. If he needs to hear a motor advancing the film, than a Konica FT-1 or Nikon N4004s might be a good way to go. If he wants to slow down, compose every shot- and that holds his interest, you might look at the fixed-lens RF's. They are cheap- $25 gets you a Minolta Hi-Matic these days, in 1969- I paid $80.

 

[bunip]

My suggestion is for the FG, one of the smallest Nikon bodies, has anything you could desire except for the matrix metering. If you need AF or AF assist the F501/N2020 is the same thing in a plastic black body with AF and motor drive. The FG was my first camera, that I really loved, when I was 15. At that time, in 1983, my dream was the FA. I remember I never used the Program as I didn't understand what was doing the camera with that...

 

[P.johnson14]

Given your list, and my preferences, drumroll, please...

Canon AE1/AE1p.

One other advantage to FD is Cheap glass.

I learned the basics from an old book and a Yashica FX3 Super 2000. Fully manual, but has a good + Green - meter. Simple, effective. I have personally found that the simpler a camera is, the better pictures I take, because I'm not screwing around with crap I don't need.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

Get the boy an RB67 !

Lol! good one Will help him build some muscle as well

Marcelo

 

[tedr1]

olyman wrote:
"He doesn't have any attachment to film, what he likes is traditional cameras with real dials and controls he can learn to use. If there was such a thing as a manual focus traditional-style SLR with a digital back, in the same way there is a Leica M10, he would be all over it like a rash. Come to think of it, I probably would as well."

I replied:
Yes, I also have seen this need. In order for it to be easy to learn the operating system in my version is extremely basic, it allows image recording in jpg format, image review and image deletion, that's it, no memory of control settings, no adjustment of image quality, in essence an SLR 35mm film camera with a digital back, about 6MP should do it. Schools and colleges might find this kind of thing irresistible.

 

[Chan Tran]

We have a saying in the UK: 'bugger that for a game of soldiers'. Happy to elucidate but I suspect you catch my drift.

But the problem is I am quite sure he doesn't want a film camera.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Based on the stated criteria: program and aperture priority, plus manual, manual focus, and real dials, I think the suggested Minolta X-700 meets that very well.

The other good suggestion is the inexpensive (£15) Canon 500N (Rebel G) which offers autofocus with all EF lenses. It's very light, has plenty of features to grow with, and is fun to use.

 

[OlyMan]

But the problem is I am quite sure he doesn't want a film camera.

He's fairly agnostic over it really. He's seen the results film can give so he knows it's not inferior, but of course being of his generation he is drawn more than I am to the instant gratification of digital. But he's drawn even more to having a camera like his dad's which has real shutter speed/aperture/focus controls rather than have them buried in menus and multi-function buttons, and the comfort-zone of a program mode while he learns. That pretty much eliminates all the current crop of digital cameras other than a few expensive rangefinders.

 

[MartinCrabtree]

Ah just pick him up a used F5. He'll love it.

 

[OlyMan]

Ah just pick him up a used F5. He'll love it.

I'm doubtful that fits all the criteria, particularly the "under $100 / £100" bit.

 

[rrusso]

Well the film camera options have pretty much been exhausted...but if he decides he wants digital, consider the Fuji X-T10. Dedicated: ss dial, ec dial, switch for full control/full auto, focus mode switch. Retro styling, small, lightweight. Fuji optics are stellar, but there are inexpensive manual focus adapters available for third party lenses.

Doesn't quite meet your price point, however.

 

[Kevin Ekstrom]

If it was my choice I would go with the Nikon FG. it will do everything you require, plus the compact size makes it a perfect walking around camera.

 

[Prest_400]

He's fairly agnostic over it really. He's seen the results film can give so he knows it's not inferior, but of course being of his generation he is drawn more than I am to the instant gratification of digital. But he's drawn even more to having a camera like his dad's which has real shutter speed/aperture/focus controls rather than have them buried in menus and multi-function buttons, and the comfort-zone of a program mode while he learns. That pretty much eliminates all the current crop of digital cameras other than a few expensive rangefinders.

I don't know if the phone fulfills his criteria for instant gratification, as it is the main snapshooting and snapchatting device. If that is fulfilled, it's quite possible he seeks a camera for being more serious. Peer pressure aside. See how he does or doesn't pick the technical part of photography.
Ironically when I was 15 and got my OM1 I didn't think it was really cool and blingy.

I had a Nikon F80 for this purpose, and ran it under A mode all the time. I used it quite more than the OM on its day because of convenience, and Medium Format taking the more conscious and thought involving part of photography. In my case it was the opposite, the DSLR design of it made it inconspicuous. Curiously I need a new body and don't find them that cheap now. I may get an F90 instead, which is more 90s.

The suggestions around are quite good. I've seen P30 kits for 20€. AE1 is a nice camera but they may be pricey as they have become hyped as "the intro film camera", just as the K1000. OM2 can be a good option if you have a spare 50mm. I would veer towards MF AE cameras of the late 70s-80s

Has he been watching Netflix's Stranger things? I haven't, but with only the trailers I feel the push of 80s retro going heavily.

As of digital, I feel that used consumer bodies tend to be over priced, but you can get cheapish nice cameras that can be battered and battled.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

The problem with digital and even professionals have this failing is the shotgun approach. Why bother to fine tune exposure and composed a photo correctly when you can shoot two dozen photos in the blink of an eye. Surely with that many one or two must be great. Digital by its very nature encourages sloppiness. If the boy is REALLY sincere in wanting to learn photography then digital is not the way to go. Like one other poster I would remind people that THIS IS AN ANALOG THREAD. Start your own digital one if you wish!

 

[OlyMan]

If it was my choice I would go with the Nikon FG. it will do everything you require, plus the compact size makes it a perfect walking around camera.

View attachment 190635

Yeah watching a couple on UK eBay, but they both have a while to go yet. I'm always that person who latches on to items destined to bring record breaking prices, while weeks earlier, before I developed an interest to buy what ever the particular item is, they were all but giving it away with McDonald's Happy Meals.

 

[tezzasmall]

Being a long time Pentax user / fan, I would recommend a camera that I used for decades before upgrading to another model with spot metering.

I offer you on ebay.com, the Pentax MZ50, which comes with a small zoom lens and all for $77.94 as a buy it now including postage in the US:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PENTAX-MZ-...393334?hash=item2840797476:g:N84AAOSwHUVZxZ~S

Terry S
UK

 

[Alan Gales]

Any brand will work. If you don't mind him using your Olympus lenses then I would get that brand.

When I was young and working in a Venture store a friend and co-worker approached me about learning to use a manual 35mm SLR. Mike was taking a photography class at the local community college. He said that the whole class was lost when it came to understanding exposure and the relationship between shutter speeds and aperture settings. I suggested that he bring his camera and we went out shooting together. Within half an hour he understood the whole thing. I had him shoot images to reaffirm what he had just learned. Mike had no problems after that.

How I explained it to Mike was to use water instead of light. For some reason I have found that people can visualize water easier than light. Tell your son to think about a dam filled with water. The longer you hold the dam open the more water will flow (time). The larger you open the dam, the more the water will flow (size opening). You want the right amount of water to flow so the river below the dam is full but not emptying it's banks. Once you have the correct amount of water flowing through the dam if you change one adjustment (time or size opening) then you will have to change the other adjustment (time or size opening) to compensate. After he understands this then change water to light and a dam to a camera with shutter speed and aperture controls. Just don't be upset though if he calls it a dam camera after this.

Take your son out with your camera and have fun. He will pick it up.

 

[faberryman]

Digital by its very nature encourages sloppiness.

Monkey with a typewriter syndrome.

 

[OlyMan]

Can I just say to all those I haven't already quoted and replied to individually (too many responses to thank and quote individually!!), thank you all for your contributions, your ideas are welcome, and as much as anything I'm enjoying reading your interesting anecdotes, tales and ideas. Thanks all.

 

[OlyMan]

I've been with him studying the spec's of various cameras that have been recommended and I think we've narrowed it down to some possibles:
Oly OM40 (actually he fancies the US OM-PC, but shipping is often prohibitive)
Nikon FG
Minolta X700
...all of which I'm watching at least one example of on eBay.

 

[pbromaghin]

I posted in support for the X-700, but do have caveat. He may be happier with an older, more mechanical, needle-and-match camera such as a Pentax K1000 or Minolta SRT-xxx. The electronic circuitry in the 1980-ish cameras is getting old and rather creaky. The earlier cameras are dead simple to use and may be more reliable.

 

[Craig]

I learned photography on my Dad's Pentax Spotamtic and slide film. The good thing was it was a fully manual camera and slide film is unforgiving. Yes, I had a number of bad shots at first, but quickly learned and got some beautiful photos. I think I learned a lot faster because the combo of film and camera tolerated no mistakes. It's easy to get decent photos and learn nothing if the camera can be set to full auto and print film is used.

I find it similar to using GPS while driving, vs a map. With GPS it's easy to just follow the instructions "turn left here" by at the end I have no idea how I got there an couldn't retrace my route without the GPS. Using a map or landmarks forces you to build a mental model and you learn the route. I think using a full auto camera is like driving with sat-nav. You can get to where you want with no idea how you got there.

 

[Marco Gilardetti]

Oly OM40 (actually he fancies the US OM-PC, but shipping is often prohibitive)

Aren't these two basically the same camera? Why does he seem to prefer the "PC", then? I'm curious.

Quite obviously it would make sense that you purchase another Olympus and share (some of) your lenses with your son. Unless you precisely want to avoid sharing your precious, adored, irreplaceable lenses with your son, that is.

 

[removed account4]

Digital by its very nature encourages sloppiness

maybe .. but i have seen plenty of sloppy film users .. and they seem to be doing OK

Monkey with a typewriter syndrome.

in any case i am just finishing
the latest work by utt and ott,
they might be monkeys but
they can type a hell of a novella

 

[OlyMan]

Aren't these two basically the same camera? Why does he seem to prefer the "PC", then? I'm curious

The sheer novelty-value of it. The quantity of OM-PCs in the UK will surely only be in penny numbers.

Quite obviously it would make sense that you purchase another Olympus and share (some of) your lenses with your son. Unless you precisely want to avoid sharing your precious, adored, irreplaceable lenses with your son, that is.

Yeah, or as someone else posted earlier: the advantage of him having an OM is he could share my lenses and accessories, and the disadvantage of him having an OM is he could share my lenses and accessories. No truer word spoken.