I want a 6x6, but do I need one? And if so, which?

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PKM-25

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Yeah, but he also quoted a budget that sounds a bit tight for top-grade medium format---he can get a damn good camera for US$500, but he won't get a Planar 'flex or a Mamiya 7. And for some of us who *do* have top-grade MF stuff, it still shares time with "cheap-ass garage sale classics".

That said, I wouldn't really suggest a scale-focus folder here either. A good RF folder, sure, but that's out of the US$10 arena unless you happen to pick the right garage sale.



If the OP intends to *compete* with his Leica gear, I hope he's planning to spend more than US$500. But he specifically said "not necessarily better" and sounds like he's looking to try out the format, not to switch systems in search of better image quality.

I bet a hat there are plenty of F1 drivers who have a great time messing around with restored 1965 Ferraris, even though they wouldn't be competitive cars in their day jobs.

Totally agree, but I know from experience what he is likely to want to see coming from that Leica glass, so he should maybe get a nice TLR with a stunner for a lens and give it a whirl. Or, up the budget to around $750-$800 and snag a decent 500CM/80/A12, worst thing that could happen is that he bails and sells it for roughly the same.

I have a friend who has a nice Ferrari collection, probably worth around 2 mil, he has a restored 1965 Ferrari convertible...:smile:
 
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RattyMouse

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Not sure yet, she has 12 weeks of vacation saved up so I am really bugging her to take it. We will probably pick one place and hang out as we both like to get to know the place and people more than just skin deep...

Give me a shout if Shanghai is on your itinerary!
 

PKM-25

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hsandler

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Hi Ryan,

For your budget, a lot depends on how you process your negatives and whether you are married to the idea of square format MF. If you are printing in a darkroom with a decent enlarger lens, the jump to MF from 35mm will probably be significant, even a relatively cheap and cheerful MF camera with a decent lens compared to your Leica, just due to the size advantage and lesser degree of enlargement. If you scan, however, there is the question of flatbed vs. film scanner. It's really hard to find film scanners for MF vs. 35mm. A dedicated 35mm scanner will outresolve a flatbed, lessening the MF advantage in terms of resolution, although the finer grain will still show itself. If you are stuck with a flatbed, the biggest negative wins, and you will see a distinct improvement with MF, and preferably 6x7 size is the way to go.

For your budget, you can get a pretty good Yashica, Minolta or Rolleicord TLR if a normal lens is enough. If you want interchangeable and square, Bronica SQ-A will do it. If you are not married to the square format, the field opens up with Bronica, Pentax and Mamiya all offering good 645 format systems, which are very complete. Fuji has some 645 rangefinders that might fit your budget. Hasselblads and 67 format SLRs and rangefinders won't fit your budget.
 

L Gebhardt

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Lol!

The guy says his most used lens is a Leica 35mm 1.4 ASPH and yet people are on here recommending cheap-ass garage sale classics for $10. Unless you have used an M 35mm 1.4 ASPH for a length of time, you have no idea what a spectacular negative or slide this now $3,000 used lens produces, I had one for 3 years before I sold off most of my Leica gear in favor of my Hasselblad stuff. I do have one M3 and a 50 Lux left, all the Leica I need.

I'm not saying it is all about the camera, but if you intend to compete in Formula One, you don't show up in a restored 1965 Ferrari.

If one wants to *really* experience the jump in image quality from 35 to 120, then put the glass first, especially coming from Leica folks. If hooked, he can do more research and pick the camera or system that works best for him.

My wife and I are going to be traveling abroad for three weeks next year. I could bring my Nikons, the Leica M3 with the Xpan, Hassy or 4x5. I am bringing a 501CM with a 60 and 100 and two backs, I daily carry a 501CM all the time, at least a few times a week, it's not much bigger than an SLR and it is a joy to use, great self promotion too.

It's all relative I guess....

I recommended the Ansco Super Speedex mainly because of it's superb image quality in a nice coat pocketable package. It also generally comes in under the stated budget by $100. So what if it's older than the 1965 Ferrari:smile: I don't know if you were referring to this recommendation in particular, but I want to put out there that I think the quality of the images are on par with what I get from my Hasselblad. It's certainly not as flexible as a system camera, but it's also a lot more portable. Because of that I don't feel silly walking around a grocery store or hospital carrying it, whereas I don't usually bring any camera that requires a bag on non photo related trips.

You may want to pick up one for your trip abroad to supplement the Hasselblad :D
 

Argenticien

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I've got several of the cameras I've seen recommended above: The C330, a Rollei ('flex, in my case), a Super Ikonta, and a Bronica S2. All are quality kit, but I have to suspect that if Ryan is coming from the Leica M system, he'll find the C330 (C220, etc.) and the S2 far too huge, and the S2 too noisy. The Super Ikonta seems a better match--small (for MF), quiet, and elegant, like a Leica; and the RF & VF are surprisingly clear and non-squinty for a 1937ish camera. Mine is a 6x9, but the 6x6 is the same idea. Quite good ones can be had under $500. The Rollei TLRs would be somewhere in the middle -- less small/pocketable than a folder, but not huge, and still quiet. I'd highly recommend a 'flex, but I'm trying to respect Ryan's price range, which will exclude many 'flexen; and I'm just unfamiliar with the 'cords.

--Dave
 

jstout

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There have been some really rude and vicious pile-ons in this thread to what seemed to me a fairly innocuous response early on. Also, this site spans across a world of languages and cultures. Just my opinion and observation, but it shocked me and I find them to be insulting and revolting. I think some apologies are in order. I hope I'm not next. I'm almost sorry I kept reading through this thread.

It seems mean to me, anyway, just my personal reaction, which, as always could be wrong. I would never see this kind of behavior on the arborist site, where I am a member.
Jeff
 

SpicySaffron

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To throw in my two pennies, for 6x6 just starting out I'd definitely recommend a TLR, and with a ~500 budget, Rolleis are certainly within reach. I love my automat, and didnt spend much over 200 for it. It's beat up, but the glass is fantastic and I am always surprised with the results. I shot part of my friend's wedding with it, and when I processed the negatives I was taken aback. Another thing to consider is TLRs tend to be light and easy to use. Just a warning, with any TLR, I'd make sure to check that the focus is in sync for both the taking and viewing, and with regards to older Rolleis, definitely get a replacement focusing screen. You may lose contrast moving to a fresnel lens, but the original ground glass can be dim sometimes.
 

fotch

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There have been some really rude and vicious pile-ons in this thread to what seemed to me a fairly innocuous response early on. Also, this site spans across a world of languages and cultures. Just my opinion and observation, but it shocked me and I find them to be insulting and revolting. I think some apologies are in order. I hope I'm not next. I'm almost sorry I kept reading through this thread.

It seems mean to me, anyway, just my personal reaction, which, as always could be wrong. I would never see this kind of behavior on the arborist site, where I am a member.
Jeff



So, are you saying the arborist site is boring, dull, or? :laugh:
 

jstout

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So, are you saying the arborist site is boring, dull, or? :laugh:

No, it's anything but. I'm just saying in this case the OP threw some red meat in the ring, and the only person who called him on it got lambasted. I guess it's all in good fun. Sorry for the interruption.
 
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RyanC

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No, it's anything but. I'm just saying in this case the OP threw some red meat in the ring, and the only person who called him on it got lambasted. I guess it's all in good fun. Sorry for the interruption.

I did nothing of the sort. I simply stated that I owned a Leica... And from that, it was assumed that I was some kind of coat tail rider by another user. He got some flack for it... Deservedly so in my opinion, but at the end of the day I'm not offended by something typed on a camera forum. Why in the world would you be?

Man... Internet drama is annoying.

.......

Anyway, as it stands I'm going to go shoot a couple of the mentioned folders as well as a Rolleiflex this weekend in an effort to see what feels right. Bought the film today. I'm excited!

My buddy is also bringing his 500c kit. I'm really hoping I don't take to it. In fact, I don't want to even pick it up in fear it will start a new obsession.
 

frank

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You're fortunate to be able to try out the different camera types before making a purchase.
 

Zathras

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No, it's anything but. I'm just saying in this case the OP threw some red meat in the ring, and the only person who called him on it got lambasted. I guess it's all in good fun. Sorry for the interruption.

Actually, the person who got lambasted frequently makes insipid posts about nothing else is as good as a Leica and infers that if you choose anything other than Leica, you must somehow be mentally defective.
 

L Gebhardt

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I did nothing of the sort. I simply stated that I owned a Leica... And from that, it was assumed that I was some kind of coat tail rider by another user. He got some flack for it... Deservedly so in my opinion, but at the end of the day I'm not offended by something typed on a camera forum. Why in the world would you be?

Man... Internet drama is annoying.

.......

Anyway, as it stands I'm going to go shoot a couple of the mentioned folders as well as a Rolleiflex this weekend in an effort to see what feels right. Bought the film today. I'm excited!

My buddy is also bringing his 500c kit. I'm really hoping I don't take to it. In fact, I don't want to even pick it up in fear it will start a new obsession.

You are lucky to be able to try out so many cameras. I just do t know many people locally with interesting stuff to borrow.

Make sure to bring a light meter. Most of the cameras you are testing don't have one built in.

Don't worry about taking to the Hasselblad. The cameras are nice, and a nice set of three lenses isn't that much money. And if you stop using it they seem to hold their value very well. One other thing, the 500c may have an older focus screen. The newer Acute matte screens are brighter.
 

2bits

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12-14 029.jpg I think I've posted this pic before. Three of my favorite folders. 1. Franka Solida ll, 6X6. 2. Agfa Isolette "L" for Built in light meter, has Voigtlander Rangefinder on top, 6X6. 3. Is a Roamer ll 6X9. All three take great pics. There are lots of nice folders available out there. Jurgen Kreckle of certo6.com sells some nicely restored and CLA'd folders. You pay a little more, but knowing you don't have light leak problems or poor operation goes a long way in my book. None of the above will set you back an arm and a leg in order to have a lot of fun.
Just my 2 bits,
 
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PKM-25

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I recommended the Ansco Super Speedex mainly because of it's superb image quality in a nice coat pocketable package. It also generally comes in under the stated budget by $100. So what if it's older than the 1965 Ferrari:smile: I don't know if you were referring to this recommendation in particular, but I want to put out there that I think the quality of the images are on par with what I get from my Hasselblad. It's certainly not as flexible as a system camera, but it's also a lot more portable. Because of that I don't feel silly walking around a grocery store or hospital carrying it, whereas I don't usually bring any camera that requires a bag on non photo related trips.

You may want to pick up one for your trip abroad to supplement the Hasselblad :D

Alright, you win, I'll give it a try, mailed out the check to Jurgen for this one today, twas not cheap...:blink:
 

Regular Rod

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Excellent choice. Now, a word to the wise, from time to time experiment with a tripod, small aperture settings and longer exposures (where appropriate), you will be amazed what a Solinar lens is capable of.

We'll have you on here again soon asking about LF!

:D

RR
 
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RyanC

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So I shot all day yesterday with a number of folders, a Rollieflex TLR, and a 500C. I learned the following:

1. I played around with three different folders. The only one I took to was the Super Isolette. I learned I have no interest in any camera with an uncoupled rangefinder. The coupled rangefinder on the SI made the camera usable for me. I liked the SI and it was totally usable, but not sure I would ever bond with it.

2. I liked the Rollieflex a lot. Really simple. This was a 2.8C with a 80mm 2.8 lens. I think I could bond with this one...

3. The 500C was simply glorious. I could learn to love that camera. Seriously. It feels almost as good as a Leica M and it made me want to take pictures. If I start to really enjoy the 6x6 format, I will get one of these with an 80mm and call it done.

As it stands, I think I'm gonna look for a nice Rollieflex in my budget. Once found, I'll shoot with it for a year. If I find that I really like medium format, I'll jump to a 500C.

Thank you guys so much for the help.
 

PKM-25

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You bought the Agfa? Looks very nice. How much was it?

Let's just say it was over Ryan's budget....

Excellent choice. Now, a word to the wise, from time to time experiment with a tripod, small aperture settings and longer exposures (where appropriate), you will be amazed what a Solinar lens is capable of.

We'll have you on here again soon asking about LF!

Nah, not much for experimenting, I use tripods all the time, so they get deployed as tools when needed. I'll run one test roll through it and then it goes to work producing images that count...

As far as LF, you might want to peruse some of the images I have uploaded, I own a fairly comprehensive Chamonix based 4x5 system...;-)

I played around with three different folders. The only one I took to was the Super Isolette. I learned I have no interest in any camera with an uncoupled rangefinder. The coupled rangefinder on the SI made the camera usable for me. I liked the SI and it was totally usable, but not sure I would ever bond with it.

Since the camera will not fire without film in it, I assume you shot at least a roll? So with that, how did it handle in regards to steps to make the shot, how did both the view finder and RF patch compare to a Leica M? I suspect this camera will be able to live in my small RF bag with my M3 and Xpan, the bag being an Artisian & Artist Oskar One Day, love it for travel...
 
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Regular Rod

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...Nah, not much for experimenting, I use tripods all the time, so they get deployed as tools when needed. I'll run one test roll through it and then it goes to work producing images that count...

As far as LF, you might want to peruse some of the images I have uploaded, I own a fairly comprehensive Chamonix based 4x5 system...;-)
...

Ah! My bad. I mixed your post up with OP!

:eek:
RR
 
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RyanC

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Let's just say it was over Ryan's budget....



Nah, not much for experimenting, I use tripods all the time, so they get deployed as tools when needed. I'll run one test roll through it and then it goes to work producing images that count...

As far as LF, you might want to peruse some of the images I have uploaded, I own a fairly comprehensive Chamonix based 4x5 system...;-)



Since the camera will not fire without film in it, I assume you shot at least a roll? So with that, how did it handle in regards to steps to make the shot, how did both the view finder and RF patch compare to a Leica M? I suspect this camera will be able to live in my small RF bag with my M3 and Xpan, the bag being an Artisian & Artist Oskar One Day, love it for travel...

Yes, I shot the last three exposures on my buddy's camera. It's a much slower camera than a Leica M. I don't know how else to express it... The rangefinder is actually really good, but not in the same league as a Leica - obviously. It's smaller and not as bright.

What I took away from it is how well it's made. That surprised me. Again, no Leica... But REALLY good.

I think it would be a perfect travel companion for an M actually...
 

RalphLambrecht

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So, I have been getting deeper and deeper into the world of film in the last 6 months. Starting with just casually shooting my film M as a companion to my M9 to now leaving the M9 at home most of the time and shooting film almost exclusively, developing it myself, and I've even set up a darkroom... Literally all in less than 6 months. Apparently, I'm sick.

Anyway, for some reason I can't explain or rationalize I now want to play around with an MF camera - more specifically something in the square 6x6 format.

I've got a budget of around $500. What would you guys suggest? Is there anything out there that I won't grow out of quickly and that can give me something (maybe not necessarily better) over my every day setup of an M7 with a 35mm ASPH Lux? I shoot Kodak Tri-x and Tmax 400 almost exclusively. I've never even so much as held a MF camera.

Ideas? Thoughts?

your budget is adequateto get a well-treated used Hasselbladof the 500 series with a standard lens.start with that.You won't regret it and can build it up from there.It is the most flexible systemand the quality is a major step up from 35mm.Also many 35mm enlargers can also do 6x6
all the best and elcome in the MF ,league.:smile:
 
OP
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RyanC

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your budget is adequateto get a well-treated used Hasselbladof the 500 series with a standard lens.start with that.You won't regret it and can build it up from there.It is the most flexible systemand the quality is a major step up from 35mm.Also many 35mm enlargers can also do 6x6
all the best and elcome in the MF ,league.:smile:

If you see a clean 500 kit in the $500 range, let me know... I'd be all over that.

However, most I've seen go for over $1000 for a basic 500, back, and 80mm.
 

Roger Cole

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$500 budget in 6x6 gives a lot of options but from prices I've seen I agree the H 500 isn't likely to be one of them.


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