I met a genius at the psych ward, now I want to be a camera engineer

[Mike Feit]

It will be made in Germany.

The price will be 200 Euros for the "Basically just a Cosina CT-1 with M42 Mount and no lightmeter"

The price for the flagship model, which will be akin to the OM-1, well only God knows the price of that...

Even including the insane rotating mechanism that loads against the block, keeping register to the aperture arm within the last several degrees tolerance of turning?

Yes.

 

[Mike Feit]

Why don't you start by dis-assembling (and re-assembling!) an existing SLR (you did not state SLR, but it seems that M42 cameras are SLRs). Then you can find out concretely what functions must be realized, how they have been implemented, and how you could do better (simpler, cheaper).

Excerpt below from the Spotmatic service diagram; complete exploded diagrams in attached pdf.


View attachment 402526

I've done it with the OM-1

 

[Mike Feit]

Christmas 2026.

That's when production will begin.

Until then, I will go through an extensive conceptualization phase.

The flagship model is basically an OM-1 and a Revueflex SD-1 mixed together.

 

[Mike Feit]

But there will be no built-in lightmeter!!!

 

[Chan Tran]

It will be made in Germany.

The price will be 200 Euros for the "Basically just a Cosina CT-1 with M42 Mount and no lightmeter"

The price for the flagship model, which will be akin to the OM-1, well only God knows the price of that...


Yes.

Wow a German made camera for 200 Euros. I wish you the best but I must say it's impossible.

 

[Chan Tran]

But there will be no built-in lightmeter!!!

Lightmeter is small thing.

 

[runswithsizzers]

During the height of SLR manufacturing, didn't most camera manufacturers buy their focal plane shutters from specialists like Copal and Seiko?

Is anyone still making focal plane shutters? I would think sourcing -- or making -- a reliable shutter would the first major challenge for a project like this one.

 

[Mike Feit]

It will be a Copal Square Shutter.

 

[Klaus Mähring]

Please make sure one can lock the shutter-button. I had a great Voigtländer I spent more than one grant on, but it lacked that feature and I had a lot of unintentional exposures.
I also like to have a defined spot with a good resistance just before the 'click' when depressing the shutter, so I am sure I get the right moment (a feature the Yashica 35GTN I am using right now certainly lacks).

 

[grain elevator]

Sorry to say this is impossible at that price. It is extremely difficult at any price and with a company in your back. There's a reason why no-one is doing it. You're setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[koraks]

It will be a Copal Square Shutter.

Nidec Copal still has a camera shutters product category, but it's focused exclusively on shutters for digital cameras. Now, it's still possible that (1) they are willing to produce a product that's not necessarily listed and (2) a DSLR shutter could just as well be used in an analog SLR. So this in itself is not necessarily an issue. The implication is that the camera will in all likelihood be electronically controlled. From a viewpoint of system complexity, this is probably just as well if you're striving for the simplest approach possible. This does mean that some (and perhaps a lot) experience with embedded systems will be needed in the engineering effort.

It seems that the European branch (Nidec Copal GmbH) solely focuses on basic electrical components, so shutters would be very much out of scope for them. This means you'd have to do business with the Japanese directly. I wonder what kind of sales volumes you have in mind?

 

[Mike Feit]

Well, then the price will be 3000EUR.

 

[Mike Feit]

Nidec Copal still has a camera shutters product category, but it's focused exclusively on shutters for digital cameras. Now, it's still possible that (1) they are willing to produce a product that's not necessarily listed and (2) a DSLR shutter could just as well be used in an analog SLR. So this in itself is not necessarily an issue. The implication is that the camera will in all likelihood be electronically controlled. From a viewpoint of system complexity, this is probably just as well if you're striving for the simplest approach possible. This does mean that some (and perhaps a lot) experience with embedded systems will be needed in the engineering effort.

It seems that the European branch (Nidec Copal GmbH) solely focuses on basic electrical components, so shutters would be very much out of scope for them. This means you'd have to do business with the Japanese directly. I wonder what kind of sales volumes you have in mind?

I will buy their shutters.

 

[retina_restoration]

It will be a Copal Square Shutter.

The Copal Square hasn’t been manufactured since 2019.

 

[Mike Feit]

The assembly will be in Germany. The shutter will be Copal. Mount M42. Pentax lenses. German ball bearings for the film advance, just because you are driving me crazy.

 

[Mike Feit]

Anyway...

The conceptualization phase will be as extensive as possible. No shortcuts. Price will be 5000 EUR

 

[koraks]

I will buy their shutters.

This is one of those cases of "one does not simply walk into Mordor."

Well, then the price will be 3000EUR.

Price will be 5000 EUR

That escalated quickly. Sounds like big money for "a no-bells-and-whistles camera for everybody."

What parts of this project do you actually have besides the first idea? Not talking about physical stuff - just the financial organizational, knowledge and human resource parts that would go into the development effort.
Do you have access to capital to fund R&D?
Do you have technological knowledge or access to people who have the required knowledge?

 

[Mike Feit]

Screw the no-bells and whistles approach, I'm going full psycho now.

 

[koraks]

From a moderator's perspective: there's two ways forward here. The first is a somewhat serious discussion about how a project like this might be approached. The other is a kind of hide-and-seek game where people get to offer ideas and you post silly responses that suggest you're just pulling the collective leg so to speak. The former we encourage; latter will result in swift discontinuation of this thread.

 

[monopix]

So he contracted a camera builder, gave them his concept and they had something that they could relatively easily modify to his needs. In fact, they apparently integrated a number of existing sub-systems from different cameras into this one.

Yes, he went to Phenix to get his ideas turned into reality. You make it sound like it was easy. What was the alternative, build a factory and equip it. Hardly a reality. He did what he had to do to achieve his goal and that included raising money to fund the development (though Penix did agree to part fund it in return for certain rights). He also had to market it to show there was a demand. Why would Phenix get involved if there was no demand. If you think it was that easy, then maybe suggest to the OP he should pop on a plane to China and get it all done. Easy-peasy.

 

[Mike Feit]

I'm here for a reason, this camera is my life, I've been thinking about this camera for 10 years now. If the "camera for everybody" is a dead-end, well so be it... I will assemble this camera myself. In Germany.

 

[koraks]

You make it sound like it was easy.

Certainly not; I'm emphasizing that even if someone were to contract out virtually all of the R&D and manufacturing work, it'd still be a very complex project. My professional activities have revolved to a large extent around outsourcing of R&D intensive work in a high tech context. I have a pretty good idea of the complexities involved.

 

[Horatio]

Best of luck!

 

[monopix]

How much does the Yahuhara T981 sells for? I think OP price of 200 Euros is too low and is an impossible price. Even in production of 10,000 that price is not possible.

There was a pre-release price mentoned of 55,000Yen (about $375) but not sure what the actual price was. You can buy mine for a $1000 if you want

 

[Chan Tran]

There was a pre-release price mentoned of 55,000Yen (about $375) but not sure what the actual price was. You can buy mine for a $1000 if you want

Although as many pointed out you can have used 35mm cameras that are much better than both the Yahuhara and the OP proposal for less than 200 Euros but however it's impossible to make a camera today for such a price. What I meant is that someone or some company can make a 35mm camera but not for the 200 Euro price tag. The recently released Pentax 17 and Rollei 35AF are very poor camera for a much higher price. Unlike back in the days Pentax could make and sell the K1000 for $90 and making a profit. Today their $500 Pentax 17 is a much worse camera than their old K1000.