I messed up. No fixer! Are my negs ruined?

[Donald Qualls]

Printing out is a slow process -- I've got undeveloped leader clips that have been intermittently in room light for years, and barely darkened, hardly show any fog if fixed out. Even if they were left in room light for a month waiting for fixer to come in, it'd be less fog than we often see on film ten years past date, AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T GO BACK INTO DEVELOPER.

 

[AsdaFan]

I'll let you know tomorrow how it goes, I've got some Rapid Fix coming by Friday.

I think I'm starting to enjoy the development more than the photo taking now!

 

[Donald Qualls]

But remember, you have to expose the film to have film to develop.

And if you want to see real magic, watch a print come up in the tray under the safelight... The only thing that beats that is watching the color come up in RA-4 reversal under white light...

 

[Ayne]

Have you actually tried this, Ayne, in a similar situation to that which the OP found himself to be in?

Yes with both paper prints and film, it stabilized the images for a week or two until I was able to get some fixer. It was not hot water, I dissolved a 1lb container of salt from my local dry goods shelf at the grocery store in 1gallon of hot water. Not all the salt dissolved. It cooled and it was put in a tray and a film container for my film. When I got the fixer, I washed the salt covered print and film and fixed it and rinsed and dried it. Both are still good today years later.

 

[cliveh]

We have seen this so many times on APUG with people pouring the wrong solution into bottles or tanks. Why don't more people colour code their bottles - developer (blue), stop (yellow), fixer (red) and they would have less problems?

 

[AsdaFan]

We have seen this so many times on APUG with people pouring the wrong solution into bottles or tanks. Why don't more people colour code their bottles - developer (blue), stop (yellow), fixer (red) and they would have less problems?

Making mistakes and coming up with solutions to use next time is all part of the learning process.

 

[pentaxuser]

Yes with both paper prints and film, it stabilized the images for a week or two until I was able to get some fixer. It was not hot water, I dissolved a 1lb container of salt from my local dry goods shelf at the grocery store in 1gallon of hot water. Not all the salt dissolved. It cooled and it was put in a tray and a film container for my film. When I got the fixer, I washed the salt covered print and film and fixed it and rinsed and dried it. Both are still good today years later.

Thanks for the reply In both cases were the prints and film kept in total darkness for the week or two until the fixer arrived?

pentaxuser

 

[Sirius Glass]

We have seen this so many times on APUG with people pouring the wrong solution into bottles or tanks. Why don't more people colour code their bottles - developer (blue), stop (yellow), fixer (red) and they would have less problems?

Uh, the lights are off?

 

[Ayne]

Thanks for the reply In both cases were the prints and film kept in total darkness for the week or two until the fixer arrived?

pentaxuser

The prints and negatives were never kept in total darkness. I did an experiment and a batch have remained fine without being "fixed" with hypo, it has been a few years in both UV, daylight and artificial light. If the OP used salt water he would be fine for the short time it would take him to "fix' his film.

 

[cliveh]

Uh, the lights are off?

When the film is in a tank the lights are on.

 

[Ayne]

When the film is in a tank the lights are on.

Them's is fightin' words cliveh. Sirius Glass might pull some "absurd logic" garbage on you for disagreeing with him!
It why would anybody suggest people developing rolls of black and white film on reels in a sealed tank have the lights off.

 

[pentaxuser]

The prints and negatives were never kept in total darkness. I did an experiment and a batch have remained fine without being "fixed" with hypo, it has been a few years in both UV, daylight and artificial light. If the OP used salt water he would be fine for the short time it would take him to "fix' his film.

Thanks that is very useful. It suggests that a high dosage of salt solution is indeed a very good protector and there is no need to keep the film in darkness either. Nor it would seem is the film emulsion at risk despite 2 members cautioning against it being kept in liquid suggesting that it risks the emulsion. It would appear that in your case up to 2 weeks in the salt solution was OK

pentaxuser

 

[Ayne]

You soak the film or paper for about a day or less not for 2 weeks. Many people on the internet who populate photography forums have no first hand experience regarding what they talk about. Many people repeat bullshite or and trash talk when they are exposed. I am not old, Maybe they talk about a specific type of salt ( Potassium Chloride vs Sodium Chloride ) or a an old "soft" emulsion, before my time except for ancient Efke I learned about. I have no idea, but in the years I read internet forums I find more than 70% are full of crap. Just look at other thread about "truth" I responded. Main person posting has no knowledge of what he talks about, but talks like he is king and makes edicts from his opinion which is not even based on "truth" (history) and he insults when he is pointed out to be full of bullshite .
Do as you wish, OP too.

 

[Sirius Glass]

For decades I heard that during World War II the US Navy taught their photographers to fix in sea water if necessary, but I never tried it even though I a close to the ocean.

 

[NB23]

Emulsion cannot resist water for more than 50 hours. Soaking a print that long will have its emulsion disintegrate. First there will be erased patches and you will be able to wipe the whole print with your fingers.

For film, it will turn into goo. I’ve done this many times.

i always talk out of personal rxtensive experience.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Emulsion cannot resist water for more than 50 hours. Soaking a print that long will have its emulsion disintegrate. First there will be erased patches and you will be able to wipe the whole print with your fingers.

For film, it will turn into goo. I’ve done this many times.

i always talk out of personal rxtensive experience.

I had film and paper loose the emulsion with much shorter soaking times, especially with warm water, and the water does not need to be all that warm. The emulsion can just slide off as a whole or fall away in pieces. I find such long soaking times apocryphal.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I had heard of the salt water thing but I'm not sure if it actually works. Just to clarify, the developer was poured into the undiluted fixer but not used so essentially the negs are not fixed. I've scanned them all using my EM10 so at least I got them before anything happened.

I've attached the front and back of a neg from a quick phone scan.

strong salt water(as much salt as will dissolve)does actually help in the absence of fixer; it was used in the early days of photography but has proofed to be ineffective as a fixer replacement to become a normal part of the process. I fear the negatives are ruined.

 

[Ayne]

For decades I heard that during World War II the US Navy taught their photographers to fix in sea water if necessary, but I never tried it even though I a close to the ocean.

The US Navy recommended washing, not fixing film in sea water, which shortened wash times and conserved desalinated water. This experiment lead to the development of fixer removers like "Perma Wash".

 

[AsdaFan]

So I took the negs out this morning and I noticed the film looking more of a dark rusty orange colour but they're fine held up to the light.

Scanned images look sharper but there are a number of light patches on some of the negs, it almost looks like the emulsion was flaking off plus other imperfections. I'd probably not do this if you're wanting to keep the negs but for me I dispose of them once scanned in.

 

[pentaxuser]

You soak the film or paper for about a day or less not for 2 weeks. Many people on the internet who populate photography forums have no first hand experience regarding what they talk about. Many people repeat bullshite or and trash talk when they are exposed. I am not old, Maybe they talk about a specific type of salt ( Potassium Chloride vs Sodium Chloride ) or a an old "soft" emulsion, before my time except for ancient Efke I learned about. I have no idea, but in the years I read internet forums I find more than 70% are full of crap. Just look at other thread about "truth" I responded. Main person posting has no knowledge of what he talks about, but talks like he is king and makes edicts from his opinion which is not even based on "truth" (history) and he insults when he is pointed out to be full of bullshite .
Do as you wish, OP too.

Thanks for helping me get it correct about the time you leave the film/paper soaking. I had initially but wrongly read the 2 weeks as the time it was left in the solution instead of the 2 days which was in fact clear on a second reading. My reading was at fault . It is clear to me that a soak exceeding this time was not used so as far as I am concerned you have eliminated the need for further discussion about the dangers of a soak exceeding this period

I repeat that based on your experience and Ralph's note above it looks like a very good idea and one I will adopt should the need ever arise

pentaxuser

 

[cliveh]

How can this thread start mentioning salt water? What has that got to do with
I messed up. No fixer! Are my negs ruined?

 

[Donald Qualls]

How can this thread start mentioning salt water? What has that got to do with
I messed up. No fixer! Are my negs ruined?

It was offered as a temporary, ingredients-on-hand stopgap until the OP can get another bottle of fixer.

 

[Sirius Glass]

How can this thread start mentioning salt water? What has that got to do with
I messed up. No fixer! Are my negs ruined?

Perhaps because the tears also contain salt water.

 

[wjlapier]

Stand developed in Rodinal 1:100 for over 1 hr. I layed down for a minute and fell asleep. No fixer. Just the developer and a quick wash. Some photoflo in the end to help with drying spots.

Basically, I ran this roll through a Fujifilm GSW680III that I just replaced the light seals. I modded the Ultrafine Extreme 400 120 film to replicate 220 film--no backing paper to see if the seals were in fact light tight. They are. No fixer and longer than 1hr stand developing resulting in acceptable negs. I'll only do this if I'm testing light seal replacement in a camera.

 

[Donald Qualls]

So, scanning through the milky halide, then?