I love 35mm film but want to develop and print my own film

MattKing said:

And then, of course, the 5 year old will figure out a better way to do something than the teacher ever thought of!
There is a great bit in Robert Pirsig's "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" where the technical writer father struggled using a product manual until his teenage son showed him how to fold out the diagram in the way that the writers intended.

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I remember that. One of my favorite books.

MattKing said:

Everyone knows that if there is something you can't figure out on your cel phone, you just need to find a 14 year old!

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Yes. My oldest is a software engineer for a well-know company (named after a type of fruit) and when I’ve asked him questions about one of my devices and he rolls his eyes, I remind him that I taught him how to use a spoon. ;-)

A while back, I stopped to tie a double knot with my shoe laces. A five year old boy came running up shouting "No!" He then made the loops as large as he could and the end strings very short. He proceeded to fold over each bow and tie them as if they were the original shoe laces. The result was a tight high knot that had no strings hanging out and the knot was high up on the shoe so that none of the laces could be stepped on. A great solution that I had never seen. Now look back at post #41.

aparat said:

@VinceInMT Agreed. I admire true experts who can talk about complex topics in an accessible way that most people can understand. There's a fantastic series on YouTube out of the North Hennepin Community College in Minneapolis, MN. The professor is very knowledgable, has a sense of humor, and an ability to teach film photography that's easy even for absolute beginners to follow.

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Another technique is to let the learner know that we never start from total scratch, that they come to the lesson with all kinds of prior knowledge that we will attempt to “activate,” perhaps by analogies, to increase their chances of success. After all, most of us had at least a rudimentary knowledge of arithmetic when we started in the darkroom so we didn’t have to learn that in order to start measuring chemicals. When teaching about film, a light sensitive material, I point out other light sensitive materials the student is already familiar with, like human skin.

VinceInMT said:

...breaking down my knowledge into bite-sized chunks and, more importantly, knowing the order in which to present them...

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So true!

But I can't help but notice - the default PHOTRIO reply to any simple question often turns into an info dump of answers to questions that were not asked. It sounds like the OP just wanted some general information and encouragement. Getting bogged down in the minutiae of plastic reels versus steel and exactly how the film leader should be cut, RE: the sprocket holes, no doubt makes the process sound hopelessly complex to the uninitiated.

runswithsizzers said:

So true!

But I can't help but notice - the default PHOTRIO reply to any simple question often turns into an info dump of answers to questions that were not asked. It sounds like the OP just wanted some general information and encouragement. Getting bogged down in the minutiae of plastic reels versus steel and exactly how the film leader should be cut, RE: the sprocket holes, no doubt makes the process sound hopelessly complex to the uninitiated.

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The nature of forums like this - one post after another, sequentially - makes them potentially:
1) poor as a comprehensive, how-to resource for beginners;
2) good as a referral resource for beginners - descriptions and links to books, videos, courses, material and equipment sources; and
3) excellent as a source for a bank of specialized experience with individual solutions to oft and infrequently encountered problems and benefits.
The world-wide nature of the membership here also adds a dimension that is difficult to find in other types of resources.
I liken it to the differences between a telephone call and an email.
If you are trying to do something that requires to and fro and responses and reactions, an email exchange is laborious, while a call can be incredibly efficient or productive. But if you are giving directions, emailing an address and a map is way better.

pentaxuser said:

Your are now a newcomer with little or no knowledge of film processing but from the very beginning of your need to know about "how to do it", conflicting options are seriously what you need??

pentaxuser

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Indeed not. As pointed out by Matt, the teacher of the primer level needs to SIMPLIFY ESSENTIAL INFORMATION, and convey only that. Only after the beginner gotten feet wet with applying basic principles should things be mucked up with subjective opinions of what is 'better' or 'alternative'...discussion of plastic vs. metal reels, stopbath use vs. water, the merits of rapid fixer vs. non-rapid, developer A vs developer B are all non-essential and beyond the basics.

What would folks teach to their 8 year old who is just starting? Gotta walk before negotiating obstacle courses running at full speed, do we not?!

The issue is that the collective knowledge also knows the ins and outs of selecting running shoes and digital music players and sweat tolerant earphones, in the same thread about walking.

MattKing said:

The world-wide nature of the membership here also adds a dimension that is difficult to find in other types of resources.

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That has certainly been my experience. I grew up and lived most of my life in Easter Europe. What and how I learned photography were markedly different from the knowledge and methods I encountered when I moved to UK and, later, the US. When I read Ansel Adams' trilogy for the first time at the age of forty something, it turned my photographic knowledge upside down. Photography as an art and craft was quite different on the other side of the iron curtain, where a Pentacon Six Tl and a roll of Fomapan 100 or ORWO were what dreams were made of. Of course, now, it's all been equalized, as fewer barriers to information exist in the modern world.

MattKing said:

I liken it to the differences between a telephone call and an email.
If you are trying to do something that requires to and fro and responses and reactions, an email exchange is laborious, while a call can be incredibly efficient or productive. But if you are giving directions, emailing an address and a map is way better.

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To expand on that a bit, timely feedback is critical in the learning process, what I referred to above as “formative assessment.” For example, when the new student attempts to load film on a stainless reel, it is common to use some scrap film in the light to practice. Even under those conditions, not every student will be successful the first time. A teacher can observe what they are doing and provide feedback in the form of constructive criticism and guidance during the process in stages. When the film jumps the track, those of us in the know will recognize that by sound and feel and will back it off, give it a bit more of a crimp, and try again. The novice won’t have those clues and pointing them out at the time is how the skill is built.

It is possible, although not nessesarily preferable, to learn many skills online. A student can demonstrate the skill using any of the popular live video tools that have become common over the past 2 years. Or the student shoots a video, uploads it, and the instructor can provide feedback referencing the time stamps.

A friend and I were talking about this just the other day, the importance of SEEING it done rather than reading about it. The written version tends to assume that things will go well, leaving the learner stranded when the instructions don’t cover all possibilities. In our example, we were talking about how to center the main jet in an SU carburetor, not unlike the process of loading film on a stainless reel.

runswithsizzers said:

So true!

But I can't help but notice - the default PHOTRIO reply to any simple question often turns into an info dump of answers to questions that were not asked.

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There is also the issue that regardless of what one is doing, no matter well it’s working out for them, it’s pretty much a guarantee that someone will tell them they are doing it wrong.

aparat said:

@VinceInMT Agreed. I admire true experts who can talk about complex topics in an accessible way that most people can understand. There's a fantastic series on YouTube out of the North Hennepin Community College in Minneapolis, MN. The professor is very knowledgable, has a sense of humor, and an ability to teach film photography that's easy even for absolute beginners to follow.

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Will Agar. His were the first videos I watched when I started to consider developing my own film at home. Great teacher, he really describes things in a simple, entertaining way.

Chan Tran said:

Personally if I were to do my own printing I would sell the Focomat and buy another enlarger. The reason? The focomat is worth a lot of money but for using it? I don't think I want to use it.

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Why not? Using this instrument whilst not the cutting edge of technology will take the person through the basic steps of progressing to superb photographs. There is nothing to beat using good equipment and really learning what different things do and how to change the picture from an also ran to something worthy to be seen hanging on a wall.
However looking and reading advice on a forum can give unintended answers to questions that were not asked. There is no way of learning a skill better than seeing someone do it in front of your eyes and you can then copy them. After all you would never learn to drive safely without practical instruction.
(although the way some drivers behave, that looks exactly what they did.)