I just bought a Yashica Mat 124 G, but sometimes the winder get stuck.

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marciofs

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My first TTL camera and I am very happy with it. Everything seems to work great but sometimes, when I want advance the film frame, the winder get stuck, not going forwards or backwards. It take a while until it works again after several attempt or after I open the film magazine.

You you guys know to explain me what is happening?
 

Dan Daniel

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It's jammed!

Seriously, one possibility is that the sync between shutter release and wind mechanism release is off. When you push the shutter button two things are happening. 1, the shutter itself is released. 2, the wind mechanism is released, allowing for the film to be wound on to the next frame. here are two different mechanical paths. Ideally, the moment the shutter is released is also the moment that the wind system is released. But this can get off so it possible to release the shutter without releasing the wind mechanism.

It might be possible to hear this. Put the shutter on B (so you don't get the leaves closing noise) and slowly push the shutter button. After the shutter fires, keep slowly pushing and listen for a second click. Also see if when you slowly push and fire the shutter, if you stop pushing as soon as it happens, does it jam? If you push further, does it unjam?

Well, just one possibility- you need to push the shutter button again, to its limit, to release the wind system. Also, if this is a new-to-you camera that hasn't been used, do a bunch of dry firing to see if it loosens up. Beyond these, I think someone will need to go inside the camera to clean and track down the problem- lots of other places for a Yashica Mat to bind up but all inside.
 
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marciofs

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It's jammed!

Seriously, one possibility is that the sync between shutter release and wind mechanism release is off. When you push the shutter button two things are happening. 1, the shutter itself is released. 2, the wind mechanism is released, allowing for the film to be wound on to the next frame. here are two different mechanical paths. Ideally, the moment the shutter is released is also the moment that the wind system is released. But this can get off so it possible to release the shutter without releasing the wind mechanism.

It might be possible to hear this. Put the shutter on B (so you don't get the leaves closing noise) and slowly push the shutter button. After the shutter fires, keep slowly pushing and listen for a second click. Also see if when you slowly push and fire the shutter, if you stop pushing as soon as it happens, does it jam? If you push further, does it unjam?

Well, just one possibility- you need to push the shutter button again, to its limit, to release the wind system. Also, if this is a new-to-you camera that hasn't been used, do a bunch of dry firing to see if it loosens up. Beyond these, I think someone will need to go inside the camera to clean and track down the problem- lots of other places for a Yashica Mat to bind up but all inside.

Thank you very much for the reply.
I found a video on YouTube suggesting to open the camera and pray a bit of lubrication in some parts. I spend the rest of the day going after the tools and I did it.
After closing the camera What you described happened, I pressed the shutter release and the winder was stuck. So I pressed the shutter release further and the winder was working again.

I kept pressing the shutter and winding until it market the 12th frame, just to spread the oil I applied inside. Tomorrow I will test again and I will see if the problem is solved.

Thanks.
 

Dan Daniel

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The synchronization of the shutter release and the wind mechanism is not a lubrication issue. It is a mechanical issue. It's been awhile since I was inside a YashicaMat and I don't remember where the adjustment point is located. But to get the two back in sync involves bending something somewhere. I'd have to have the camera in front of me to see. If you want to remove the side panel again you should be able to operate the camera with the back in place and find out where the switch is for activating the wind mechanism, and which part looks like it can be bent to change this operation.

Then again, maybe the best thing to do is use the camera as is. If the wind mechanism doesn't work, push the button again. No harm done. Be careful randomly spraying lube inside. There are a couple of points where lube is not needed and where lube can cause the wind mechanism to jam in a different manner.
 
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marciofs

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The synchronization of the shutter release and the wind mechanism is not a lubrication issue. It is a mechanical issue. It's been awhile since I was inside a YashicaMat and I don't remember where the adjustment point is located. But to get the two back in sync involves bending something somewhere. I'd have to have the camera in front of me to see. If you want to remove the side panel again you should be able to operate the camera with the back in place and find out where the switch is for activating the wind mechanism, and which part looks like it can be bent to change this operation.

Then again, maybe the best thing to do is use the camera as is. If the wind mechanism doesn't work, push the button again. No harm done. Be careful randomly spraying lube inside. There are a couple of points where lube is not needed and where lube can cause the wind mechanism to jam in a different manner.

I will keep using as it is. I operate the camera while it was open but I am too stupid to figure out what is going on with all the movements.

The video I used as reference is this one>
 

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At 1:26 in your video link, in the upper left third, there are two pointed pieces of metal. You'll see the lower point unhook from the upper one. I think this is the wind release mechanism. See how the lower pointed piece gets a bit skinny near its bottom? I think it is by bending this hook left or right you change the timing of the release point and get it to happen at the same moment that the shutter fires.

If you don't have any experience making slight changes in metal parts, i'd stay away from bending this piece around. Not hard to break it off and then you have a real problem, not just an inconvenience.
 

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Buy some electronics spay and spray clean all the linkage first. The spray will evaporate very quickly and it will clean all the oil and grease that has collected with dirt. You might want to apply a light oil after cleaning. If cleaning it fixes it then you know it was just dirt and not an adjustment.
 
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marciofs

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At 1:26 in your video link, in the upper left third, there are two pointed pieces of metal. You'll see the lower point unhook from the upper one. I think this is the wind release mechanism. See how the lower pointed piece gets a bit skinny near its bottom? I think it is by bending this hook left or right you change the timing of the release point and get it to happen at the same moment that the shutter fires.

If you don't have any experience making slight changes in metal parts, i'd stay away from bending this piece around. Not hard to break it off and then you have a real problem, not just an inconvenience.
I won't touch that then.

Just one last question.
The shutter release button slide slowly back to its place after I press in. Do you think it needs to have the spring replaced of just a lubrication will do the job?
 
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marciofs

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Buy some electronics spay and spray clean all the linkage first. The spray will evaporate very quickly and it will clean all the oil and grease that has collected with dirt. You might want to apply a light oil after cleaning. If cleaning it fixes it then you know it was just dirt and not an adjustment.

Thanks for the tip.
 

Dan Daniel

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I would put a little (little little) drop of lube on the shutter release shaft and work it for a while, then wipe it off. If you have any graphite or molybdenum powder, make a slurry with oil and apply a small amount to the barrel. Work in and clean off.

All in all the shutter button is separate from places where oil could cause problems, but no need overdoing it. If that doesn't help, then it usually means that oil or grease had gummed up on parts that surround the shutter block. To work on this involves removing the lens shroud and preferably removing the shutter itself; clean and relube the parts and reassemble. Not difficult but not simple and you'll need to deal with the meter coupling and other such issues. Probably not recommended unless you've done similar things or are willing to learn.
 

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marciofs

marciofs

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I would put a little (little little) drop of lube on the shutter release shaft and work it for a while, then wipe it off. If you have any graphite or molybdenum powder, make a slurry with oil and apply a small amount to the barrel. Work in and clean off.

All in all the shutter button is separate from places where oil could cause problems, but no need overdoing it. If that doesn't help, then it usually means that oil or grease had gummed up on parts that surround the shutter block. To work on this involves removing the lens shroud and preferably removing the shutter itself; clean and relube the parts and reassemble. Not difficult but not simple and you'll need to deal with the meter coupling and other such issues. Probably not recommended unless you've done similar things or are willing to learn.

Download the repair manual here: https://www.manualagent.com/yashica/mat-124g/repair-manual
Its 7 pages, diagram of how the parts fit. The shutter button operates a linkage that trips the shutter. The linkage is stiff or the shutter needs a CLA.
The manual is all that a good camera technician not familiar with the camera needs to service it.

There should be a mechanism that prevents multiple exposures.
It is an L shaped piece that is spring loaded -> https://www.flickr.com/photos/29504544@N08/4904829549
If is does not move freely, then it may cause the type of problem that you describe ... I had this problem.
Do not force the winder, or you will bend the arm.

Shutter button may be gummed up or the mechanism underneath are -> https://www.flickr.com/photos/29504544@N08/4885924271

Thank you all very very much. :smile:
 

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I had mine CLA'd earlier this year and it worked fine until I screwed in a traditional mechanical shutter release to trip the shutter with the camera on the tripod. It didn't like it and started to jam and it couldn't be wound on until I had physically operated the shutter release using the button itself. I decide to just use the self timer as a release instead, and this has worked fine for me and is one less item to forget/lose.
 
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marciofs

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I had mine CLA'd earlier this year and it worked fine until I screwed in a traditional mechanical shutter release to trip the shutter with the camera on the tripod. It didn't like it and started to jam and it couldn't be wound on until I had physically operated the shutter release using the button itself. I decide to just use the self timer as a release instead, and this has worked fine for me and is one less item to forget/lose.
It wouldn't work for me. I use my cameras to take portraits of people outdoor.
 

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I had a Yashica Mat awhile back, in rough but working and light tight shape. Sometimes it would jam on the wind. if I wound it backwards, gently, it would free up. It stopped jamming the more i used it.
 

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My first TTL camera and I am very happy with it. Everything seems to work great but sometimes, when I want advance the film frame, the winder get stuck, not going forwards or backwards. It take a while until it works again after several attempt or after I open the film magazine.
You you guys know to explain me what is happening?

hey marcio

sorry to hear your yashica is giving you troubles !
they say the winding mechanism is the achiles heal of that model
i had one back in IDK 1984-and sold it in 91 .. LOVED IT !
and even back then people would say "how does it wind, the winder always breaks" ...
ive wanted another for years but they always command so much $$ so
when i get theTLR itch ( which i tend to get form time to time ) i get rolleicords
which seem to be cheap and a great alternative too
if you see one, snatch it up, you won't be sorry ! the older ones don't have a flash sync
but the triotar lens is magical, the newer ones ( sorry i don't know the numbers and letters they are called but rolleiclub
has everything you need to know ) have a flash sync sharp lenses stopped down and sweet bokeh wide open
fewer mechanical issues, and still cost less than the yashicas :smile: and .... they don't have winder issues !

i hope you can get yours sorted out, you'll take some beautiful portraits with it when you get it working...

good luck !
john
 
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marciofs

marciofs

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hey marcio

sorry to hear your yashica is giving you troubles !
they say the winding mechanism is the achiles heal of that model
i had one back in IDK 1984-and sold it in 91 .. LOVED IT !
and even back then people would say "how does it wind, the winder always breaks" ...
ive wanted another for years but they always command so much $$ so
when i get theTLR itch ( which i tend to get form time to time ) i get rolleicords
which seem to be cheap and a great alternative too
if you see one, snatch it up, you won't be sorry ! the older ones don't have a flash sync
but the triotar lens is magical, the newer ones ( sorry i don't know the numbers and letters they are called but rolleiclub
has everything you need to know ) have a flash sync sharp lenses stopped down and sweet bokeh wide open
fewer mechanical issues, and still cost less than the yashicas :smile: and .... they don't have winder issues !

i hope you can get yours sorted out, you'll take some beautiful portraits with it when you get it working...

good luck !
john

Thank you very much for the suggestion. I will keep an eye around in case I see a rolleicord around.
 
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