I have gone mental

[kivis]

For some reason I have it in my mind that my ol' Nikon SLR's are more sturdy and rugged than my rangefinders (M3 and R3M). And that the VF's are more prone to misalignment even though I have NEVER had this happen. Please bring me back to reality so I can get back to my RF's.:alien:

 

[Tom1956]

There is no redeeming quality to a Leica whatsoever. Nikon is all you need, Leica is an absurdly expensive toy.

 

[kivis]

There is no redeeming quality to a Leica whatsoever. Nikon is all you need, Leica is an absurdly expensive toy.

Too late, toys are already bought and paid for.

 

[Tom1956]

You just sounded like you needed somebody to slap you back into sensibility. I see you have a Nikkormat FTN. So there's your best camera right there. Not worth 20 dollars on ebay, and the best camera in your bag.

 

[lxdude]

Too late, toys are already bought and paid for.

Just use them. Don't bang them around. That's it.

 

[jimjm]

A few years ago I dropped my well-used Nikon FE while I was crossing the street. 4 ft drop onto concrete put a BIG dent in the prism housing. The attached 50mm lens was OK, but looking thru the VF the image was distorted. I was sure I had shattered the prism, but removing the lens I found that the mirror was half raised, so I was able to push it back down into place. I was able to continue shooting that day and never encountered any problems with the body afterward. I am fairly certain any of my F or F2 bodies will be able to survive the same abuse just as well, or better. I have an F2 that looks like it went thru a garbage disposal and is mechanically perfect.

That being said, I love my M2 - it's a joy to use a 50-year old mechanical marvel like this. Same feeling as shooting a plain-prism Nikon F, simple and uncluttered and neither is a toy by any means. Just use the tools that fit your hands and suit your style of shooting, regardless of price or reputation. Both cameras were engineered and designed to do one thing very well. I don't expect that the RF of a Leica will fare as well after the impact that my FE suffered and it certainly wouldn't be as cheap to repair/replace.

Only you know what you need. My ideal shooting day is an urban walkabout with an M2 and an F, a few lenses for each, a lot of film and a few good cafes along the way. (If I have space in the bag I may bring along a Rolleiflex!)

Go take some pictures!

 

[Xmas]

Just use them. Don't bang them around. That's it.

true and don't drop the gbag either

but Nikon F and F2 shutter ribbon seems to be better material probably for the continuous use on motor drive even Canon P shutters seem to have better build standard for reliability.

Leica lost the plot when they went to zinc, rationalized range finder and special tool for adjustment... the FSU removed the rotating follower but retained screw driver adjustment, the Ja improved the build standard so a little Ja lady could build without swiss files.

 

[kivis]

Thanks guys, starting to feel better already. The nip of bourbon also helped.

 

[Terry Christian]

SLRs and rangefinders are completely different beasts. Both are good and their usefulness depend on the photogrspher's vision and type of photography. Don't compare apples to oranges.

 

[Chris Lange]

Leica Ms and Nikon F#s of similar age are of equal quality to one another. They are different tools for different types of image making. That is all.

If you need to remember why you have an M3, just take it out of the bag and use it for a week.

My M2 is my primary camera for just about everything that doesn't happen in a studio, I've only owned it for just under a year, but I put my gear through a lot, and the VF is still as accurate as the day I got it.

 

[Steve Smith]

A few years ago I dropped my well-used Nikon FE while I was crossing the street. 4 ft drop onto concrete put a BIG dent in the prism housing.

How was the road surface?!


Steve.

 

[gleaf]

I believe there is medication one can take to calm this fixation on multiple camera brands. I prefer Drambue with fair quality scotch over ice and taken slowly in a recliner.

 

[Jim Jones]

My Leica M4 bought new in 1970 looks tattered, but still works well. Several Nikons and Nikkormats from that era have some problems. All were used hard and are fine camera systems. The Nikkorex and Nikon FM10 do not have the quality construction of Nikons and Nikkormats.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

For some reason I have it in my mind that my ol' Nikon SLR's are more sturdy and rugged than my rangefinders (M3 and R3M). And that the VF's are more prone to misalignment even though I have NEVER had this happen. Please bring me back to reality so I can get back to my RF's.:alien:

Leicas and other "high quality" RFs (they're actually bait for the trap) are inherently evil, also prone to demonic posession. A misaligned viewfinder is the least of your worries.
Send me all your Leica and other RF gear, I'll put it in a spiritual Faraday cage and guard it so no one comes to harm. Then have yourself excorsised and your house (and especially the darkroom) cleansed and blessed. Don't hesitate.
Actually the Nikons are dangerous, too. Send those as well!

 

[kivis]

Leicas and other "high quality" RFs (they're actually bait for the trap) are inherently evil, also prone to demonic posession. A misaligned viewfinder is the least of your worries.
Send me all your Leica and other RF gear, I'll put it in a spiritual Faraday cage and guard it so no one comes to harm. Then have yourself excorsised and your house (and especially the darkroom) cleansed and blessed. Don't hesitate.
Actually the Nikons are dangerous, too. Send those as well!

Driven to drink again. This time some Zyr Vodka and lemonade on the rocks.....by the pool.

 

[one90guy]

My Leica M4 bought new in 1970 looks tattered, but still works well. Several Nikons and Nikkormats from that era have some problems. All were used hard and are fine camera systems. The Nikkorex and Nikon FM10 do not have the quality construction of Nikons and Nikkormats.

My wife bought me a FM-10 14 years ago and for about 9 years it was my only camera. I can not guess how many rolls thats been through it. Its looks rough but still works great. Its never been dropped, that I remember, but its had many trips to the beach and always rode with me when I drove cross country. If memory serves me, the newer one are not marked made in Japan, don't know if that means anything.

David

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Driven to drink again. This time some Zyr Vodka and lemonade on the rocks.....by the pool.

Vodka??? Ohhh noooo!!! Demons love vodka!! Quick, drink some good single malt Scotch. Maybe with a little spring water added.

When can I expect the cameras?

 

[John Koehrer]

Leicas and other "high quality" RFs (they're actually bait for the trap) are inherently evil, also prone to demonic posession. A misaligned viewfinder is the least of your worries.
Send me all your Leica and other RF gear, I'll put it in a spiritual Faraday cage and guard it so no one comes to harm. Then have yourself excorsised and your house (and especially the darkroom) cleansed and blessed. Don't hesitate.
Actually the Nikons are dangerous, too. Send those as well!

Hey! I'd like some too and pay 1/2 the postage.

 

[chip j]

The Nikon dosen't say "STEAL ME" in 17 languages.

 

[jimjm]

How was the road surface?!


Steve.

Couldn't stop too long as I was dashing across the road during a break in traffic... I suspect an F or F2 would have at least made a good mark on the concrete as they're quite a bit heavier than the FE. Recently disassembling an F plain prism I noticed there's some dead space between the prism "shell" and the prism glass, so any dents on the outside won't damage the inside. I suspect a similar design characteristic is used for the FE/FM series and many of the older Nikon MF bodies. Probably most other brands of that era as well.

 

[Xmas]

start up pros always bought black F or F2 and if they looked to new dimpled them with punch and hammer.
crockus cloth was effective as well...

 

[250swb]

There is no redeeming quality to a Leica whatsoever. Nikon is all you need, Leica is an absurdly expensive toy.

The man that dies owning the most toys wins.


In over thirty years I have never had a Leica rangefinder adjusted, in professional and plenty of amateur use. I did always buy second hand examples that were accurate, and new cameras never needed it. They have bumped together, clattered into Nikon F's, and they just carried on working. It isn't impossible that I will need one adjusting in the future, on the basis that if it can happen it will happen, but it is a problem created in peoples minds more than in reality. And usually it is a problem created by internet forum's especially with newcomers. They are already nervous and learning a new camera, and the first advice they always seem to get is 'send you camera for a CLA' or 'set up a test chart' even before they get the hang of the rangefinder. Expectations are driven to fever pitch by comments like 'I can hand hold my Leica at 1/8 second', and 'l zone focus', or 'I always use my lens wide open'. No wonder there are so many out of focus and blurry images that worry the newcomer, but these concerns are transferred to the general ambit of Leica photography as yet more myth and things to worry about.

So if you have a Leica M use it, you may not be able to bounce it down the road like a Nikon F, but if that is the only good thing to recommend a camera you've got a more serious question to answer

Steve

 

[Lowly]

Reading this thread everyone's experiences are different and that's what will form their opinion. I like to use both rangefinder and SLRs, but in my experience Nikon SLRs are very reliable whereas the legendary reliability and sturdiness of Leicas have been overstated.

I have an M3 and used it for years, then dropped a camera bag with it inside from about 1m. Mirror separated and viewfinder went black. I was then going to use it for wide-angles with an auxilliary viewfinder, but the shutter then jammed.
I have had an M2 shutter jam. Luckily disassembling the shutter release collar seemed to fix the problem and everything now works fine.
I have a Leicaflex Standard that had a shutter break (I think a string broke holding the shutter curtain).

3 x Nikon F4, Nikon F3, F90X and FM2n - no problems whatsover (and I am much less gentle with the Nikons).

 

[Nikanon]

The proper alignment of the optical system of an SLR is visual where in a Rangefinder the alignment is on good faith of the manufacturer or the last technician who worked on it.

Highly precise equipment will always be sensitive. The higher the quality of the output, the more
Precision Required of such a device, will often cause it to need more repair and adjustment and care in general. An Imacon film scanner for example needs adjusting much more frequently than an Epson V750, but the Imacon will do things the Epson won't. Rangefinders Are highly precise and require near perfect to perfect alignment of all parts of the system to function properly. If you need a rangefinder for the work you do, or prefer it ergonomic ally, or aesthetically, or for whatever reason, it's fickle nature is a necessary burden. I have dealt with many issues of collimating lenses and rangefinder alignment, but once you get a feel for your system and when it needs a checkup or may be "sick" you can stay ontop of the problems. A second body is helpful too.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Nikon cameras are very good and have a reputation for dependability. However, the attention to detail that is given to Leicas transcends what anyone would normally expect. It has to do with the German psyche. For many years a Leica could be sent back to Leitz to be refurbished. The camera would be completely disassembled and any worn parts replaced. The body would be rechromed or repainted and the leather replaced. If necessary the lens would be repolished and the coating redone. This service applied not only to current models but all previous ones too. It involved the pride of Leitz in all their products. I am not aware of any other manufacturer that had a similar service.