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George Collier

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I mentioned this in another post and someone wanted more details, so here goes.
I bought a new V850Pro last year and kept testing the film holders, wishing (like others) that the 6x6 one would hold 4 frames. I found the best settings for the leveling feet, different on different size holders (I have 35mm, 6x6, and 4x5 film to scan, all B&W). I also tried scanning directly on the glass (e-down) with ANR glass on top. With none of these options do I use the sharpening function of the software (Silverfast).
I’ve been scanning for 25 years or so, with all kinds of scanners, some professionally, and arrived at the feeling that I might not be getting the best scan sharpness. The film holders are inconsistent and kind of tinkertoy. I could not make contact with the BetterScanning guy (he still didn’t list the 850 on his site the last time I checked), so I contacted another anr glass guy whose site is Scan-Tech, who sells glass and will talk to you. I bought a piece of glass 8x10 and decided to shim it up from the scanner glass and reach the height of best sharpness.
I did this with 2 feeler gauge sets I bought on line, cheap, along with a micrometer to check things. I took them apart, cleaned off the oil, and started at just under 3mm in height (approximately where the film sits with a holder), using the various gauges in combinations, two equal stacks, one on either edge of the glass, with the neg (a good grain-sturdy tri-x and rodinal neg from the 70s) with the neg in between (straddling) the stacks. The neg is taped base side to the anr glass in the sprocket hole areas. The natural curve keeps it flat to the glass. (This also works with 4x5 and 6x6mm)
I found the height of 3.25mm (all measurements were confirmed with a micrometer). I found that from 3.15 - 3.35 was a decent range, but 3.25 is the sharpest. It is also sharper than scanning on the glass itself. And - the height is the same for all formats. I made permanent shim spacers using 3/4” wide .0625” thick extruded aluminum strips from a hardware store, 10” long, binding up with pieces of a high quality digital paper stock, reaching the right thickness, including the blue painters’ tape that binds it all together. (the same tape used to hold the neg to the glass - no residue.) I place a 10 inch long shim spacer on either side of the glass, 8” apart, so I can scan anything in between, format is irrelevant.
My approach to scanning is one image at a time, like printing in the darkroom, so I’m not looking for rapid multi frame scanning of rolls of film, but rather the best scan I can get. Depending on film size, though, any number of strips, or negs (2 4x5’s will fit side by side, and 4 6x6cm, or 6 35mm will fit the length) can be scanned as you work through them. Everything is black and white. I scan to tiffs, 16 bit, open in Raw from the bridge (I like its sharpening tool, much nicer than in PShop), open and work in PShop the rest of the way. On extreme dynamic range images, I do a second scan of highlight or shadow areas, paste in over the other scan in PShop and mask out what I don’t want from the second, although the Silverfast double scan feature for shadow areas does a great job most of the time.
Opening the tiff scan in Raw allows me to tweak the ends of the range by opening up the shadows or adjusting the highlights before opening in PShop for final editing.
 

Adrian Bacon

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When scanning directly against the glass did you use the 4x5 setting or 8x10 scan setting. They use different lenses.
 

grat

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SilverFast and Epson is oxymoron. I use Epson scan with Epson scanners. Don't need to write posts so long I have no dedication to read it. :smile: Epson with Epson. Works.

Silverfast with Epson works better. So there. :smile:
 

grat

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Vuescan with Epson works even better. :whistling:

I tried out all three, and didn't really care for the VueScan results. I admit, I was using the trial copy, and SilverFast seemed ... I hesitate to say this, but... easier to use for me.

I've spent a bit of time getting the most out of SilverFast SE+ (I upgraded one notch from the version that comes with the scanner), so I'm probably biased, but VueScan and I... meh.
 

Adrian Bacon

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This is all silly. Use what works for you, including the user interface and the output options.

LOL... Just having some fun. Yes, people should use what works for them. And yes, they are the only ones who can really decide that. And yes, if it's different than my choice, that's totally fine.
 

Adrian Bacon

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I tried out all three, and didn't really care for the VueScan results. I admit, I was using the trial copy, and SilverFast seemed ... I hesitate to say this, but... easier to use for me.

I've spent a bit of time getting the most out of SilverFast SE+ (I upgraded one notch from the version that comes with the scanner), so I'm probably biased, but VueScan and I... meh.

That's totally valid. To be fair, I primarily use Vuescan to get raw scanner samples, and in the case of BW, raw samples of just the blue channel. I also use Vuescan to scan in reflective material as I get a fair amount of that in the shop where people want some image restoration on an old print, or an enlargement, etc. Since we had all those fires in California a few years ago, I've actually had a lot of business of people bringing in heavily water or fire damaged prints wanting some semblance of a restoration as it was the only copy of the image they had.

As morbid as it sounds, I've also been experiencing the same thing with Covid related deaths were people come in with a printed photo of a loved one that passed away and they need an enlargement etc. for the memorial service and then afterwards a huge stack of photos that they want digitized for keeping.
 
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George Collier

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Shutterfinger - Silverfast AI studio (for the 16bit tiff) 8.8. On a Mac. I use SF because it came with the scanner, the upgrade for AI was, I think $80US, or less, worth it to get 16bit, especially for large format skies.
Ko.Fe. - Please don't read what you don't want to read (if only I'd known). I did use Epson software for many years with a 4990, got tired of its instability. And must you have such a lengthy moniker?:wink:
Adian B - how do you choose between the 4x5 or 8x10 option for scanning on the glass? (with SF software).
 

shutterfinger

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Sillverfast SE 8, V700, Windows 10 its under the reflective tab. Select the Transparency: Glass then the Positive tab will have positive and negative selections.
Silverfast.jpg
 
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George, I got a V850 a year ago upgraded from a V600. I needed the V850 because I started to shoot 4x5. I've always used Epsonscan and now pretty much just set black and white points only for the scan and do the rest in Lightroom. I try to keep it simple. Why learn two editing programs which is what you do with SF and VS? Here's a test I did against a Howtek drum scan using Epsonscan and the V850 that matches up pretty well against Howtek.
https://www.largeformatphotography....-Epson-V850-flatbed-scanners&highlight=howtek

I found my issue with the V850 and medium format similar to yours. I also shoot 6x7 and the V600 would handle three at a time. But now with the V850, you only have space for around 2 1/2 frames. What was Epson thinking when the made the V850 holders?
 

Adrian Bacon

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Adian B - how do you choose between the 4x5 or 8x10 option for scanning on the glass? (with SF software).

I don't exactly know in that software. I know in Vuescan if you do the normal transparency mode, it defaults to 4x5, but there's a selection to specifically select that you want to digitize an 8x10 transparency, and when you select that, it switches to the other lens set for 8x10.

You should also be able to tell what mode you're in based on the maximum resolution you can select. In 8x10 mode, your maximum available resolution is 4800dpi, in the normal mode, it's 6400dpi.
 
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My understanding of the V850 is that there are two lenses. One used when you select a holder. It's the better lens and is focused above the glass at the height where a holder is holding the film.

The other lens, not quite as good, is used when you scan on the platen glass.

Maybe you're confusing 4x5 vs 8x10 in the framing selection option where you allow the machine to to scan the entire platen or you can select and zoom in on the cropped portion you framed. Then the machine only scans the smaller portion of the platen glass - crops it in effect. But with either selection, the same rough lens is used when it scans the glass. I assume its the same rougher lens that's used when you copy prints on the glass.
 

Adrian Bacon

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My understanding of the V850 is that there are two lenses. One used when you select a holder. It's the better lens and is focused above the glass at the height where a holder is holding the film.

The other lens, not quite as good, is used when you scan on the platen glass.

how do you know which one is the better lens? I always scan everything against the platter glass and select the 8x10 transparency mode as that should be focused at the glass surface. I do this primarily as it’s just significantly faster to scan things this way. While it’s nice to have the holders, they’re just not ideal in a higher volume environment.

I’d be interested in seeing if there’s a difference between the two lenses both in terms of sharpness, but also in terms of where it is focusing.
 

grat

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From what I've pieced together, the Epson Dual Lens system is two separate lenses, one that captures 4800 PPI and one that captures 6400 PPI. The high resolution lens only covers the center section** (lengthwise) of the scanner, and is focused at +3mm above the glass bed-- at least, it's supposed to be. It can get jarred, bumped, or just not have been quite dialed in at the factory, so the trays have leveling positions.

**According to the specs, the maximum size for a transparency in a film holder is 5.9" x 9.74".

All of this is based on published specs by Epson, but beyond the basics laid out in the scanner specs here: https://epson.com/For-Work/Scanners...erfection-V850-Pro-Photo-Scanner/p/B11B224201 I don't recall where I found the more specific information.
 

Doug Fisher

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Oct 19, 2006
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>>I always scan everything against the platter glass and select the 8x10 transparency mode as that should be focused at the glass surface. I do this primarily as it’s just significantly faster to scan things this way. While it’s nice to have the holders, they’re just not ideal in a higher volume environment.

The key word there is "should". In reality, there is variance for the actual best focal distance, just like with the second lens. With a variable height holder you have the ability to correct this. When scanning directly on the glass bed, you do not. Also, their is a higher chance of Newton rings when scanning on the glass bed.

Doug
 

Adrian Bacon

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>>I always scan everything against the platter glass and select the 8x10 transparency mode as that should be focused at the glass surface. I do this primarily as it’s just significantly faster to scan things this way. While it’s nice to have the holders, they’re just not ideal in a higher volume environment.

The key word there is "should". In reality, there is variance for the actual best focal distance, just like with the second lens. With a variable height holder you have the ability to correct this. When scanning directly on the glass bed, you do not. Also, their is a higher chance of Newton rings when scanning on the glass bed.

Doug

absolutely, however that is a trade off I have to live with. The reality is the only time I use the V850 is when I have something larger than what I can digitize with my normal scanning setup, which is a custom digital camera/copy stand rig optimized for the fairly high volume throughput of my processing lab environment.
 

KenS

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When scanning with my Epson 850 Pro, I lay my 8x10 negatives directly (as 'square as possible) onto the glass platen and have never had a problem with focus or 'selecting' only the exposed area (or 'part there of) of the negative to be scanned.

Ken
 
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