I give up! (The Arista.EDU saga)

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Foto Ludens

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WARNING: This post may sound as frustrated as I feel.

Alright, where do I start?

A couple of weeks ago I ask of ways to get a warm tone on ARISTA.EDU paper.
Lot's of people helped, and I'm very grateful for that.


Well, I found a formula for AGFA 120 (a.k.a brown tone developer), and decided to try it out. Then I found a formula for AGFA 123, which is the same developer, but with the addition of 25g of Potassium Bromide. I said what the heck and decided to try that one out.

So I mixed a batch, set up the darkroom, exposed the paper, dump it in and nothing happened. I couldn't believe it, so I exposed the paper at 5 stops more than usual, and dump it in. Still nothing; the paper's as white as a bride's dress. I then turn on the normal lights. NOTHING. The paper turns yellow, but no developing takes place.

Frustrated, I dump that batch and mix a new one, being very careful of the quantities and order of the chemicals. Same thing happens. Or rather, it doesn't.

At this point I'm very pissed off, so I dump the thing and mix AGFA 120 instead (no bromide).

I make a test exposure, and the thing works. Good, Alright, the blood's not boiling anymore. I make 3 test strips, and figure this out: (1:4 dilution)

At 3 minutes in the soup, ARISTA.EDU takes on a blue/purple tone, almost like some papers in selenium toner. At 2 minutes, it has a nice chocolate brown tone, but no contrast. Keep in mind that I'm printing problematic negatives, on full contrast (170 magenta). Increasing exposure helps with density, but not contrast (as was to be expected).

I then say screw it, and mix a 10% solution of Pot. Bromide, as suggested by Les. I add 10ml of this (about 1 gram of Pot. Bom.) to 4L of developer (it is a 1:4 dilution, but I altered the quantities to give me 4L instead of 5L of working solution). I make another test exposure and stick it in, and NOTHING HAPPENS. At this time I'm mentally cursing at everything and everyone. It seems that for ARISTA.EDU paper, Pot.Brom is a darn good stop bath.

I then repeat the 5 stops greater exposure I had done with AGFA 123,a nd stick that in. Still nothing. With the paper in the developer, I turn on the lights, and I see a trace of image on the paper, as the whole thing beggins to fog.

To make things more exciting, I some how manage to drop an entire box of ARISTA.EDU paper into my tray of stop bath. That time I actually did curse.

Moral of the story?

There is no god.

Oh, and don't try to be cheap on paper. It's not worth it.

Oh, and did I mention that the 1st floor of my house flooded this morning? Yeah, a water hose (that feeds into the fridge) broke, and turned my house into a lake. Home owner's insurance people are down there as I type....
 

Jorge

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Sometimes it pays to just walk away. I know how you feel, I have also had frustrating times in the darkroom. May I suggest you try a different paper with the same agfa developers? the problem might be the paper and not the developers. Is this rc or fiber base? RC papers sometimes have developers incorporated in the emulsion that might be messing your process.

Good luck and cheer up, at least you had good insureance and they showed up....:smile:
 

Alex Hawley

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I tend to agree with Jorge. When the frustration meter is pegging (old analog analogy), its time to quit the darkroom. Amazing how a small mistake will suddenly pop to mind after getting settled down.

Developers incorporated into the emulsion could be doing it. That sort of paper ain't a good thing for those who like home brews.
 
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Foto Ludens

Foto Ludens

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Thanks for the kind words, gentlemen.

Yeah, I've quit the darkroom for today, and I've decided to go back to the tried and true Agfa paper. I'll try them with these developers and see what happens. I'm sure it's the paper, but I'd be surprised if it was developer incorporated. The ARISTA.EDU paper (fiber, btw) is supposed to be the same as Forté Polygrade, which is not developer incorporated. Weirder things have happened, though.

Anyway, I got 5 turbines and one huge dehumidifier in my kitchen right now, and as my mother says, it could be worse. I'm just happy I still live with my parents, otherwise the kitchen thing alone would send me into a 6 month long depression :smile:
 

Jorge

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Andre R. de Avillez said:
Thanks for the kind words, gentlemen.

Yeah, I've quit the darkroom for today, and I've decided to go back to the tried and true Agfa paper. I'll try them with these developers and see what happens. I'm sure it's the paper, but I'd be surprised if it was developer incorporated. The ARISTA.EDU paper (fiber, btw) is supposed to be the same as Forté Polygrade, which is not developer incorporated. Weirder things have happened, though.

Anyway, I got 5 turbines and one huge dehumidifier in my kitchen right now, and as my mother says, it could be worse. I'm just happy I still live with my parents, otherwise the kitchen thing alone would send me into a 6 month long depression :smile:

If it is the same as forte, try this, put the paper in selenium toner for about 10 minutes, you will get some very nice coppery brown tones with a little bit of split tonning. I was using fortezo elegance graded with this, but it might work with the edu if it is the same as forte.
 
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Foto Ludens

Foto Ludens

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Jorge,

I'll check on how damaged the remaining sheets of paper are, and if they are good I just might try the selenium toning trick...

I was checking on JandC's paper, and their Polywarmtone line seems to have dropped in price a bit, putting it in the same price line as Agfa (if bought from Adorama, and after shipping is figured). So I just might go that route. Of course, it would mean more testing, but it will assure that I won't die of boredom.

Oh Well, we'll see.
 

FrankB

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Some days you're the dog, others you're the lamppost
or...
You can't have everything, where would you put it?
or...
At the end of the day, it gets dark
or...
On the other hand, you have different fingers
or...
 
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Foto Ludens

Foto Ludens

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FrankB said:
Some days you're the dog, others you're the lamppost
or...
You can't have everything, where would you put it?
or...
At the end of the day, it gets dark
or...
On the other hand, you have different fingers
or...
nice!
 

TPPhotog

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FrankB said:
Some days you're the dog, others you're the lamppost
or...
You can't have everything, where would you put it?
or...
At the end of the day, it gets dark
or...
On the other hand, you have different fingers
or...
The trouble is how come with photography you mostly feel like the lamppost, with the occasional doggie feeling just to keep you hooked? :wink:

Still never mind just think if it was easy there wouldn't be so much satisfaction when all goes right. Otherwise they would not have invented digi for those that can't LOL
 

Peter Schrager

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Just my 2 cents. I too tried the arista.edu paper and couldn't get any contrast either. They will take it back and give you your money. Do yourself a favor and try the Forte Polywarmtone+; yes it's $63 a box at B+H but the stuff is gorgeous! Try mixing up a batch of D-55@1:6 and let it go for 5+ minutes. You should get beautiful some beautiful tones all the way from chocolate to a serious balck. This is a class paper!
 

clayne

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To make things more exciting, I some how manage to drop an entire box of ARISTA.EDU paper into my tray of stop bath. That time I actually did curse.

Moral of the story?

There is no god.

Oh, and don't try to be cheap on paper. It's not worth it.

Oh, and did I mention that the 1st floor of my house flooded this morning? Yeah, a water hose (that feeds into the fridge) broke, and turned my house into a lake. Home owner's insurance people are down there as I type....

Found this old thread in a search. Not to make fun of the OP, but I did have a laugh reading the misfortune - but in a communicable "been there" kind of way.

The box of paper in the stop-bath is what got me.

Andre, how are things these days?
 

Athiril

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I tend to agree with Jorge. When the frustration meter is pegging (old analog analogy), its time to quit the darkroom. Amazing how a small mistake will suddenly pop to mind after getting settled down.

Developers incorporated into the emulsion could be doing it. That sort of paper ain't a good thing for those who like home brews.

I've been meaning to ask.. which papers don't have a developer' built in', I know my Ilford stuff has, but I haven't done much printing, just paper-negs in camera.
 

Peter Schrager

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try the papers from Croatia...no incorporated devlopers in them
the adox papers might be the same..someone here will know!!
Best, Peter
 

jgjbowen

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I'm looking at the OP and thinking to myself TWENTY-FIVE GRAMS of KBr!!! Is this correct???

I mix my own Amidol and use 3cc of a 10% solution of KBr in a liter of developer. If I used 25 grams it would take a month for the image to appear :0)
 

Gerald C Koch

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Amidol is very sensitive to bromide which explains why so little is used.

Many warm tone developers depend on a high bromide concentration to effect the image tone toward brown. It all has to do with the size of the silver grains produced. The finer the grains the warmer the tone.

Warm tone developers typiically have a longer induction period than other developers. During this time you will not see any image. They are also slower in their action and require a greater exposure.

The choice of a paper is critical, some work better than others. Papers cannot contain developing agents as they will adversely effect the image color.
 

tim k

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Throw em under the fridge. Maybe the insurance will get you one of those newfangled electric picture makers.
 
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