I found the perfect camera and it is cursed [Fuji GS645W]

[adelorenzo]

I've been carrying various 35mm cameras on my wilderness adventures but never been happy with the quality. I see plenty of people who do really well with that format but I just can't get good results, not with SLRs and especially not with point and shoot cameras like the Yashica T4 or the Canon Sureshot A-1. Convenient, yes, but image quality not what I would like.

The next step is medium format, of course. I've occasionally packed my Pentax 645NII or even a Mamiya C330 on trips but they are heavy and bulky cameras. We tend to move pretty fast and I often have to grab shots on the fly so stopping and taking off my pack is usually not an option. Plus I have an upcoming trip where my starting load is 25 kg before camera gear so I don't want to add to much weight.

I eventually stumbled upon the Fuji GS645W and was immediately interested. I've since come to believe that it is the perfect camera for me on these trips, essentially a medium format point and shoot. I use ISO 400 film (Portra and HP5+), which generally means I am shooting F11 at 1/250 or 1/500 depending on if it is cloudy or sunny. I keep the scale focus at 5 m and I'm basically good to go. Pull it out and shoot. At 700 g it is light enough and packs small enough that I can keep it in a belt or chest pouch for easy access. In bad conditions or on the river it goes into a dry bag.

I've generally had good luck with old cameras in general, but for some reason I feel like I'm cursed with these ones as I am on my third camera in the past six weeks.

Camera # 1

Ordered from a reputable Japanese eBay seller. Put a test roll through it, slow speeds are sticking but I'm willing to live with it. Take it on an overnight trip where it proceeds to develop intermittent shutter issues and I start losing a third of my shots on each roll. Unfortunately, the shots I DO get are really good. I'm hooked and need another one. Fortunately seller has a 14-day return policy but I am out the return shipping costs.


Mount Ward and Radelet Peak by Dead Link Removed, on Flickr


Paul packrafting the upper Wheaton River by Dead Link Removed, on Flickr

Camera #2

Ordered from a very reputable Japanese broker while the other one was still on its way back to Japan, this one came with a 3-month warranty. Took it on a mountain bike ride and put three rolls through it no problem. Head out on a 4-day trip and it immediately began to develop shutter issues that got progressively worse. First an intermittent sticky shutter and then it failed completely on my last roll. I believe that the shutter release has lost its connection to the shutter. Lost a number of photos but, again, the ones I get are exactly what I was looking for. Still have this camera as I consider whether to return or try to repair.


Snowy pass near the Duke River, Kluane National Park by Dead Link Removed, on Flickr


Paul navigating Bullion Creek, Kluane National Park by Dead Link Removed, on Flickr


Upper Bullion Creek, Kluane National Park by Dead Link Removed, on Flickr

By now you have noticed that these cameras go some pretty rough places but I can assure you that I keep them dry and protected when carrying them. Nothing I wouldn't expect any other of my cameras to be able to handle.

Camera #3

Ordered from a reputable Japanese eBay seller before I found any problems with camera #2. I thought I'd be taking it on my upcoming 10-12 day trip as a "backup" but now it's got to be my main camera unless I can fix the other one. Now considering taking a Holga as my backup camera in case this one fails as well, since it takes 120 and it is very light. Fingers crossed....?


Dave on Money Shot, Whitehorse, Yukon by Dead Link Removed, on Flickr

So, if you've read this far, where I am at is I leave Friday for 14-16 days with a camera that so far appears to work, that I love, but I cannot trust. Not a good feeling but we'll see how it goes. I'm definitely convinced that these cameras are perfect for what I want to do.

Once I get back I'd like to send these cameras in to get them overhauled. Anyone have a recommendation? Much prefer someone located in Canada unless they are a Fuji specialist.

 

[Bill Burk]

Well it sure sounds like you need to bring two cameras with you since this model is failure prone for you. I'd get a very simple folding 6x4.5 '50s era camera, like a Super Ikonta A. Make sure it's functional before the trip, and maybe you'll never need to bring it out. Most of the time when I bring two cameras, the backup is never needed.

 

[darkosaric]

If you cannot trust - that is not good. Try some high quality folding camera, with your style "F11 at 1/250 or 1/500" it is easy to use as point and shoot.

 

[Rick A]

For cheap bucks, you can get a good quality older(40's-50's era) folder with outstanding optics. Light weight, mechanical, small enough to fit in a pocket. I'm carrying a Zeiss Nettar 6x6 that fits in the cargo pocket of my shorts.

 

[250swb]

I don't think there is anything inherently unreliable about the camera model itself, it is just old grease getting cold and stiff on overnight trips into the wilderness. It is the sort of thing that could happen to any camera of this age in a similar situation. It needs a service.

Steve

 

[trythis]

Folders dont actually fire that fast. 1/250 is about as fast as they fire according to the Certo6 guy that rebuilds and sells folders.
However you would probably still enjoy an old 645 all manual as a backup especially as flat as they can be.
If it were me and a 645 folder was in order I would get it from the Certo6 site already CLA'd.
I use a Fuji GA645 non W version all the time and understand why you like the GS when traveling with other people.

I have had no trouble with the GA, perhaps that is an option.
Typos made on a tiny phone...

 

[macfred]

...
I use a Fuji GA645 non W version all the time and understand why you like the GS when traveling with other people.
I have had no trouble with the GA, perhaps that is an option.
...

+ 1 for the FUJI GA645 series !
I use a GA645 (Fujinon lens 60mm f/4) and a GA645Wi (Fujinon lens 45mm f/4) - I take them everywhere I go and I never had a problem so far.
Highly recommended !

----

@ adelorenzo : Those photographs are beautiful !!

 

[frank]

If I may ask, how much were these GS645 wides? I have one, thinking of selling. I remember that I bought it for $500 as a cheaper alternative to a hasselblad 50 which were selling for much more back in those days. I used the Fuji 645 wide on a few weddings and the results were great.

 

[pentaxuser]

Isn't the problem with "normal" folders or even "normal" 645 that the standard lens is 75/80 whereas his Fuji is 45 so he can set the hyperfocal distance at 5 metres and everything is in focus from about 7 feet to infinity so it becomes a point and shoot which given his needs is what he needs

It doesn't sound as if any other camera would meet his requirements. Yes he could use a 45mm lens on a P645NII but he pays the penalty of weight which he has mentioned

pentaxuser

 

[trythis]

I forgot that about folders....


Typos made on a tiny phone...

 

[gone]

I had a 645s. Mine had to go back due to....shutter problems. The recommendation to move to a good folder is the smart move for sure, and the shutter speeds will be perfectly adequate for what you're doing. They're very small and light, and the image quality is very, very good. I recommend a Zeiss Ikonta (not the Big Bertha model), or a Bessa RF, especially if you can find one w/ a 6x4.5 mask. The little Voigtlander Perkeo folders have outstanding image quality. Really, there are a lot more that would fit the bill. A 75mm lens is plenty wide enough for medium format.
5

 

[summicron1]

is this an electronic shutter, or electronically fired?

in my experience electronics in cameras, like electronics in everything else, are not designed to last a really long time. Not sure how old ur cameras are, but if age is a problem you may want to go mechanical.

If age is not the issue, then you gotta wonder. Buying used cameras means you are usually buying a camera someone else got rid of for a reason. Either way, having it fully serviced after you buy it (or better yet, before) is a plus with any used camera.

 

[adelorenzo]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions everyone.

I had been looking at various folders before I saw the Fuji but honestly there are so many out there it's difficult to know where to start. Plus, as was mentioned, I really like the 45mm lens, the 28mm equivalent has always been my go-to. The other idea would be to get a Mamiya 6 with a 50mm lens but those also have a reputation for being unreliable and cost 3x as much.

It is a mechanical shutter and yes, it is likely cold/damp conditions affecting the operation. Although, as I mentioned, on Camera #2 the shutter button appears to no longer be linked to the shutter. The shutter will still fire on its own. Unfortunately I don't have time to get anything serviced so I'll be rolling the dice on Camera #3. Definitely plan to send them in once I have time. I've got the service manual so I may have a go at Camera #2 this week before I leave on Friday.

 

[adelorenzo]

If I may ask, how much were these GS645 wides? I have one, thinking of selling. I remember that I bought it for $500 as a cheaper alternative to a hasselblad 50 which were selling for much more back in those days. I used the Fuji 645 wide on a few weddings and the results were great.

The GS645W is a different camera from the GS645 Wide. I can't help with the latter but I can tell you having bought three GS645W in the past couple of months I am paying in the $320-400 USD range which includes shipping from Japan.

 

[gijsbert]

GA645w(i) has 45mm F/4 lens

I bought a GA645wi last year and it's my favorite medium format camera: automatic everything, good meter, pretty compact.
And it does have zone/scale focusing, not as nice as a ring on the lens, but press the mf button on the front and use the dial to set the distance (via lcd readout). I do use zone focusing a fair bit and it is easy to set this way.
It's a more pricey than a GS645w, I paid 550US$ for mine (it's a bummer the CAD is so low these days, painful!). The GA645* have manual controls, but they are not as convenient as manual cameras. I have never used a GS645w so I can't compare usability or image quality.

Old thread about those 2 cameras: http://photo.net/medium-format-photography-forum/00AXNU

 

[bernard_L]

Somewhat similar experience. Bought a GS645W (300€) about 4 years ago, for same reasons as adelorenzo. Very happy with the results. Lens is super sharp, at least for me up to 12x16 inch prints. Something started to move inside and obstruct the VF. Decided to have a CLA, which cost me close to another 300€. Still don't regret it, now have this nice camera good for a number of years. Possibly a CLA with a reliable technician is the way to go: one good camera weighs less than one so-so plus its so-so backup.
All those who recommend a folder forgot about wideangle aspect; really nice for nature/landscape. And still can be used as a general purpose lens (except portrait) without shouting "wide angle" like a 24mm equivalent.

 

[destroya]

I have a 645zi and think it also a very good travel camera and for hiking a nice lightweight backpack camera when you want size and a light load. Sorry you are having issues with them. but when they do work mine and every other one I seen picts from or have heard from people like you, the lenses are razor sharp and give the mamiya 6 a run for the money ( I cropped my 6x6 photos so the 645 neg is almost the same size).

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Another long time user of Fuji medium format rangefinders I too recommend instead you consider the GA645W. I've owned a number of more modern versions of Fuji MF RFs and have loved them all (GW690III, GA645, GA645zi). The older ones (GS) are great cameras in theory but I've hesitated in obtaining any as there's too many stories like yours of simple failures. My GA645 is one of my most used cameras as the AF is terrific and the lens absolutely superb. You should grab a GA645W next round.

 

[M Carter]

Why not take the body that's worked best for you, research the best service supplier for the brand, and get it fully CLA'd with an emphasis on shutter issues - or at least, speak with a knowledgable service guy and see if these are easy and long lasting fixes or if that camera has reached the "no parts, spit & duct tape" era of life. (Seriously, some cameras it's just CLA, some there are parts that are notorious for failure that can't be found anymore). Should be possible to find out if any given camera can be made dependable.

Best of luck, I know what it's like to find gear that just works for ya!

 

[adelorenzo]

I think what I'm going to do after this trip is try to get a couple of the bodies to someone that can service them, if such a person exists anymore.

 

[brian steinberger]

I too feel in the same position as you, although I'm in love with the Bronica RF645. Parts are becoming scarce, but fortunately for me I have a "parts" body now which was a body I bought to be my backup and had nothing but issues with it. It is now sitting in a closet waiting if parts are needed for my other functioning one. The RF645 is a great camera, very similar to Fujis 645 but with interchangable lenses. I have the 45, 65, and 100 lenses and love it. I take it hiking and biking all the time and it does great.

For what it's worth to you I can highly recommend the Mamiya 6. I own two of those and both work great. Bob at precision camera in Chicago performs great CLAs on these and you might want to look into him for service on your Fujis. Another great repair place is KEH. They also sell used cameras with a nice warranty. I'm done with eBay for buying cameras as the last two times I've been burned. APUG and RF forum are great places to buy from fellow members. Good luck!

 

[macfred]

As an alternative - probably not wide enough ...

A friend of mine bought a Konica Pearl III a couple of weeks ago and I'm very impressed by results.
Maybe worth a look ...

A nice write about the Pearl III (from 120folder.com) : http://www.120folder.com/pearl_iii.htm

 

[mesantacruz]

I just wanted to comment on how wonderful these photos and others on your Flickr stream are.

 

[adelorenzo]

To update:

My third Fuji GS645W managed to survive most of my trip which was awesome. I put 33 rolls through it and they all have pictures. Unfortunately, this one died shooting literally my last roll from the airplane as the film counter no longer resets or works.

I really love these cameras but three dead cameras in 3 months is a bit much. I've not had any luck finding a place to service them in Canada, if anyone knows somewhere in the US that can fix these please let me know.

 

[gzhuang]

Absolutely fantastic pictures. Shot on Ektar?