I don't have kids but..

blansky · Jul 25, 2015

Alan Klein said:
. We're the ones that complain and demand the government "protect" us. We seem to be willing to seek security at the risk of losing our freedoms.

I think the reason we (some people) seek security is because we are bombarded 24/7 by the bogeyman.

Which is where this thread started.

Fear is an emotional that usually defies logic. And there is a lot of money to be made off of fear.

It's why we have helicopter parents, millions of guns, militarized police forces, companies that specialize in "security" and for hire armies, the largest military by a factor of about 10 or more, something like 165 military bases throughout the world...........

And someone is making a ton of money off of it all.

Follow the money and you find the source of the fear. And it ain't the government.

MartinCrabtree · Jul 25, 2015

Of course it's other people. I didn't do it.

Nodda Duma · Jul 25, 2015

In your excitement to try to point out hypocrisy...

markbarendt said:
And IMO you use a broad brush in the following statement:

IMO your statement here paints the police as somehow: more trustworthy than the population of people they were recruited from; that their selection, direction & management is somehow immaculate & apolitical; and that they are always on the right side.

I believe that to be an utterly false assumption.

.

You drew the wrong conclusion about my opinion on the subject. Which is understandable, since I didn't share it.

Since I didn't share my opinion of police, my post relaying a *specific example* of the use of public camera systems could not be in any way be a broad brush stereotype. In fact, it's not even a non-stereotyping of police. There simply was no opinion given.

Unless you're just assuming (stereotyping) that people who post here are pro-cops? Or in the habit of assuming a linked article's conclusions are shared with the person who links to it?

It is human nature to stereotype, so it's difficult to avoid it. You just have to get into the habit of evaluating -- or be raised to evaluate --individuals on their own merits.

Which brings us back to evaluating individuals walking around children with cameras. Are they creepers or just socially awkward innocents? Easy enough to figure out if you're not afraid to ask them directly.

pdeeh · Jul 25, 2015

The expectation that everything is Either/Or is also liable to lead us up the garden path ...

Nodda Duma · Jul 25, 2015

pdeeh said:
The expectation that everything is Either/Or is also liable to lead us up the garden path ...

I agree so much that I'd buy you a beer if you were nearby.

pdeeh · Jul 25, 2015

That's generous Jason but it'd have to be Either tea Or something else non.alcoholic

markbarendt · Jul 25, 2015

Nodda Duma said:
In your excitement to try to point out hypocrisy...

You drew the wrong conclusion about my opinion on the subject. Which is understandable, since I didn't share it.

Fair enough.

One thing that we are both demonstrating is the failings of language and forum communication.

removed account4 · Aug 23, 2017

i missed this thread when it first made the rounds
and i just spent too much time looking for a post
about an apugger/photrino? who crashed a pool party
filled with little kids and was photographing them in their
swim suits and swimming until he was asked to leave
( he posted to vent ) but instead i will
suggest that the photographer in question was a budding miroslav tichy
https://www.photrio.com/forum/index.php?threads/miroslav-tichý.119215/#post-1579527
im guessing if the guy had a home made 35mm camera with a lens made of ground plexiglass
and showed the offended people some of his work and gave a business card he would have gotten
a local gallery exhibition ... and then a sub plot in a coen brother's movie.

wiltw · Aug 23, 2017

And I grew up in the 70s in a small town (5000 people or so in a mostly rural area). In the summer, we played outside and pretty much went where we wanted. There wasn't anything on TV to watch if we'd even wanted to. You had to make your own fun, which we did. I don't think there's a tree on public space in Little Falls that Michelle and I didn't try to climb. And, um, the roof of the public library. Never broke a bone and we were fearless. I'm hoping Nate will be mostly the same, though not quite as fearless (hey, whadda you want, I'm the mom).

What I find sad is how so much of the innocent joy of photographing children without any bad intent has been removed from our lives.

Creepiness should be prevented, but the normal appreciation of children should be encouraged.

Fear is an emotional that usually defies logic. And there is a lot of money to be made off of fear.
It's why we have helicopter parents, millions of guns, militarized police forces, companies that specialize in "security"...

^^^
It is truly sad to see how suspicion and fear are expressed by so MANY in this thread!
It brings to mind the lyrics by Buffalo Springfield in For What It's Worth

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away

We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

It seems to me that it used to be common to see children playing outside, not fenced in, 50 years ago. It seems rare to see that these days. Sign of the times. Sad.

Terrorism...alters peoples' lives with FEAR, perhaps that is the goal of terrorism, not the destruction itself. Make lives lower in quality as a result of fear.

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 23, 2017

I remember years ago my cousin started working night shift so he could pick his kids up from school. It all stemmed from a fear of having his children kidnaped and sexually exploited. His kids lived less than 2 miles from school. I work at a university and I see most coddled millennials not being able to sweep floors, write a check and clean up after themselves. I'm constantly have to clean up after them. They would leave have drunken cups of their $5 iced coffee on desks and leave litter on the ground because the trash can was inconveniently too far away. After they graduate from college, parents will also fill out their job applications and write their resumes. When they graduate, they want to be rock stars first day on the job.

RattyMouse · Aug 23, 2017

You people have no idea what coddled kids are like until you go to China. There, the one child of the family is allowed to do WHATEVER they want. Saying no to them simply isn't an option.

I was in a toy store one day and just stood there watching a 5 or 6 year old boy throwing hundreds of Legos set up in a display all over the floor. The parents just stood by and watched.

On the news there were some Chinese tourists watching their kids destroy a piece of art in an art museum (Europe I think, but not sure). It was beyond appalling.

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 23, 2017

RattyMouse said:
You people have no idea what coddled kids are like until you go to China. There, the one child of the family is allowed to do WHATEVER they want. Saying no to them simply isn't an option.

I was in a toy store one day and just stood there watching a 5 or 6 year old boy throwing hundreds of Legos set up in a display all over the floor. The parents just stood by and watched.

On the news there were some Chinese tourists watching their kids destroy a piece of art in an art museum (Europe I think, but not sure). It was beyond appalling.

Here at the university, we have students from China. Parents buy them expensive, fast cars. Some cars cost over $50K U.S. These kids are terrible drivers with a lot of horse power. These kids don't want to park in the student lot nor take public transport into campus. Somehow, they get handicap parking permits to park in the center of campus. Just think, 2 generations ago, most citizens in China are worrying where the next meals is coming from. That's the economic miracle of China.

Gerald C Koch · Aug 23, 2017

There is no intelligent life in Fargo North Dakota.

cliveh · Aug 23, 2017

Mainecoonmaniac said:
That's the economic miracle of China.

Yes, but it's all based on credit that will soon go tits up.

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 23, 2017

cliveh said:
Yes, but it's all based on credit that will soon go tits up.

I think they're the creditors to the U.S. Not an economist, but I think China will have the upper hand when the world economy. The Chinese economy will only grow. They're not dumb.

75suzuki · Aug 23, 2017

If youre obviously taking pictures on the sly, then id think you were up to something. If youre doing so openly, then i think nothing of it.

but lets just recall that this IS the 21st century, no pedo is out there with a FILM camera. Theyve got a cell phone with a camera in it, they can pretend to talk, chat, text, whatever, while snapping photos. Or they can simply go online and find their sicko pictures online. The day of the "creep with a camera", at least a FILM camera, i think is long gone.

RattyMouse · Aug 24, 2017

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I think they're the creditors to the U.S. Not an economist, but I think China will have the upper hand when the world economy. The Chinese economy will only grow. They're not dumb.

China also has a massive amount of debt. Their local governments are swimming in debt. They have an entire banking system that is off the books (shadow banking) so the true extent of China's debt isnt clearly known.

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 24, 2017

RattyMouse said:
China also has a massive amount of debt. Their local governments are swimming in debt. They have an entire banking system that is off the books (shadow banking) so the true extent of China's debt isnt clearly known.

I didn't know.

removed account4 · Aug 24, 2017

RattyMouse said:
China also has a massive amount of debt. Their local governments are swimming in debt. They have an entire banking system that is off the books (shadow banking) so the true extent of China's debt isnt clearly known.

the funny thing is debt isn't really real its electronic magic at this point.
the debt i am talking about isn't consumer debt ( small numbers ) but
big national/international debt.

RattyMouse · Aug 24, 2017

jnanian said:
the funny thing is debt isn't really real its electronic magic at this point.
the debt i am talking about isn't consumer debt ( small numbers ) but
big national/international debt.

Chinese local governments have over 4 trillion dollars in official debt, with it being suggested that shadow banks are owed at least another 4 trillion dollars. That's big debt in my book.

Theo Sulphate · Aug 24, 2017

75suzuki said:
... The day of the "creep with a camera", at least a FILM camera, i think is long gone.

I remember an APUG post of a few years ago by Ken Nadvornick where he was accosted at a Washington state fair by security and told "not to photograph the kiddies" (which he hadn't been doing). His camera: a 4x5 Speed Graphic.

faberryman · Aug 24, 2017

RattyMouse said:
Chinese local governments have over 4 trillion dollars in official debt, with it being suggested that shadow banks are owed at least another 4 trillion dollars. That's big debt in my book.

The US has 20 trillion in federal debt. In addition, there is another 20 trillion in debt owed by state and local authorities. None of this is electronic magic: real interest is being paid on all of this debt.

jim10219 · Aug 24, 2017

If they don't approve of other people looking at their kids in their bathing suits, then why are they letting their kids walk around in public in bathing suits?

RattyMouse · Aug 24, 2017

faberryman said:
The US has 20 trillion in federal debt. In addition, there is another 20 trillion in debt owed by state and local authorities. None of this is electronic magic: real interest is being paid on all of this debt.

The US debt has nothing to do with this thread. A poster made a comment to suggest that the Chinese governments are debt free. That is demonstrably not the case.

RattyMouse · Aug 24, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
I remember an APUG post of a few years ago by Ken Nadvornick where he was accosted at a Washington state fair by security and told "not to photograph the kiddies" (which he hadn't been doing). His camera: a 4x5 Speed Graphic.

I miss Ken.

I don't have kids but..

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