I do not like the extolled XTOL

[baachitraka]

Developer cost is the least in photography.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Developer cost is the least in photography.

Actually PhotoFlo is cheaper.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

So it is about cost?

No. I thought post #151 was pretty detailed concerning my primary reason for using XTOL. I use it one-shot. It has high capacity (permitting development of four 8x10 sheets simultaneously, even when diluted) and other benefits. Cost is not a reason I settled on it.

Developer cost, especially considering the $7.50/sheet price of 8x10 320TXP and travel to places I photograph, is a noise-level expense. Even if XTOL worked out to $1.00 per sheet, as opposed to the $0.125 it actually costs, I'd still use it. However, for those on tight budgets, the low price can be one of those "other benefits."

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

So it is about cost?

Out of all the things that have been said in this thread, that is what you choose to comment back with?

Numerous practitioners have mentioned borderline countless reasons to use Xtol that are far more important than cost. Almost any film developer is inexpensive compared to the cost of film, paper, and other expenses related to darkroom based photography.

 

[MattKing]

Well cost may not be relatively the most important concern, the fact that replenished developer permits easy re-use with the addition of a small amount of fresh chemistry is really important if you use a developing system that requires a high volume of fluid.

As an example, if your tank requires 1.5 litres to develop a sheet of 8x10 film, it is really inconvenient and quite wasteful to have to discard that 1.5 litres of one-shot developer after you develop each sheet - even if it is diluted one-shot developer. Discarding 70 ml and replacing it with 70 ml of fresh developer and then pouring the result back into the bottle is a much more practical and satisfying approach.

 

[Craig]

To me, Delta 100 and Xtol is a magic combination, the best tonality I have ever achieved has come from that combination. I used D76 for quite a while, but I'd never go back to it unless there was no other developer available.

 

[John Wiegerink]

What Matt says above is what it's all about for me when it comes to Xtol-R. Every now and then I shoot some 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 sheet film and have not liked developing it in trays because the sheets are small and hard for me to work with. I then bought a Yankee sheet film tank that allows developing different sizes of sheet film including the 6x9/2 1/4 x 3 1/4 sheets. I used it and it worked fine except for the fact that I was dumping a ton of developer down the drain with each use. Now that I use Xtol-R I don't have this problem and will be shooting more 6X9 film and might try 4x5 in it in the future or when I get the urge anyway. Now add this to the fact that I really like the sharp, clean negatives I get with Xtol-R and it just has to be a win-win for me at least. It is true that I could use something like Kodak DK-50 replenished for the same sheet film negatives, but why when Xtol-R just seems slightly better all the way around. Oh, and it's really good in my 120 roll film tanks also. What's not to like?

 

[Alan Johnson]

To get a similar solvent developer with a visual indication that it is going bad, ie goes dark brown, means replacing ascorbate in Xtol with hydroquinone.There is no such developer in The Film Developing Cookbook and it seems it was never investigated.

 

[Pat Erson]

Developer cost is the least in photography.

"in photography small saving bring big problems"
Milhous Adams (Ansel's hidden brother). ;-)

 

[baachitraka]

"in photography small saving bring big problems"
Milhous Adams (Ansel's hidden brother). ;-)

The most expensive for me are the time and cost of the paper.

 

[baachitraka]

To get a similar solvent developer with a visual indication that it is going bad, ie goes dark brown, means replacing ascorbate in Xtol with hydroquinone.There is no such developer in The Film Developing Cookbook and it seems it was never investigated.

But then most of the magic is from ascorbate otherwise it may end up as PQ/MQ?

 

[Alan Johnson]

Also it seems better to be careful about using canned "air" to prevent oxidation of Xtol:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[baachitraka]

Will it work as a developer if water is replaced with TEA in x-tol? But then TEA is highly viscous...

 

[Alan Johnson]

Will it work as a developer if water is replaced with TEA in x-tol? But then TEA is highly viscous...

Generally inorganic compounds will not dissolve significantly in TEA so the result would be a sulfite sludge.
An alternative would be "Mocon" , a concentrate devised by Albada where the sulfite solution is added separately.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Also it seems better to be careful about using canned "air" to prevent oxidation of Xtol:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I know some people are having problems with them, but there's something to be said for accordion bottles. Or, any other method to remove the empty volume in the storage jar, like using marbles, or maybe even using small enough bottles where it will never be exposed to air long enough for it to matter, like 250ml ones. In processing 3-4 films with replenished solution the bottle would be empty and it's time to begin on the next one. After mixing a 5 liter packet there'd be qty (20) 250ml bottles.

My experience with accordion bottles is good. I never had a failure because of them, and they appear to keep the replenishing solutions going strong for months.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I know some people are having problems with them, but there's something to be said for accordion bottles. Or, any other method to remove the empty volume in the storage jar, like using marbles, or maybe even using small enough bottles where it will never be exposed to air long enough for it to matter, like 250ml ones. In processing 3-4 films with replenished solution the bottle would be empty and it's time to begin on the next one. After mixing a 5 liter packet there'd be qty (20) 250ml bottles.

My experience with accordion bottles is good. I never had a failure because of them, and they appear to keep the replenishing solutions going strong for months.

Thomas,
I had some Paterson accordion bottles and after much use had to ditch them. They just would not stay compressed. I am now using mylar wine bladders and love them. Only problem is I can't get them in the USA anymore. I had a very nice and thoughtful fellow on this forum send me some from Australia where they are still in use. When I was using Boston brown bottles I would hit them with Acetylene gas from my torch set since I know it's heavier than air. We used it to blow tunnels in Vietnam since the gas would flow down instead of rise up. I tried propane and it seemed to work also, but I never tried it for any length of time to know the long-term outcome.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I use accordion bottles. They do keep the air out but sooner or later they fail. If they fail shortly after purchase, FreeStyle will either exchange them or refund your money.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I use accordion bottles. They do keep the air out but sooner or later they fail. If they fail shortly after purchase, FreeStyle will either exchange them or refund your money.

Mine failed after about two years on one and about three or four on the other. the one that failed first was a smaller one the one that lasted longer was about 2 liter size if I remember right. I would have bought more, but it just happened that a very good photographer friend of mine passed away and his wife wanted me to clean out the basement. Long story short, I have many Boston browns and just switch to using those instead. I keep my Xtol-R in mylar wine bags and the same goes for my homemade FX-37 and Perceptol. I keep my user-stock Xtol in a gallon Boston brown topped off full, but the Xtol replenisher is in the mylar wine bag. My Pyro developers are all in Boston browns. It all seems to be working just fine this way and I hope it stays that way too.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Mine failed after about two years on one and about three or four on the other. the one that failed first was a smaller one the one that lasted longer was about 2 liter size if I remember right. I would have bought more, but it just happened that a very good photographer friend of mine passed away and his wife wanted me to clean out the basement. Long story short, I have many Boston browns and just switch to using those instead. I keep my Xtol-R in mylar wine bags and the same goes for my homemade FX-37 and Perceptol. I keep my user-stock Xtol in a gallon Boston brown topped off full, but the Xtol replenisher is in the mylar wine bag. My Pyro developers are all in Boston browns. It all seems to be working just fine this way and I hope it stays that way too.

I've had mine for about ten years, and they're as tight as when I bought them.

 

[John Wiegerink]

That's darn good. What kind are they? Are they Falcon brand?

 

[mshchem]

Thomas,
I had some Paterson accordion bottles and after much use had to ditch them. They just would not stay compressed. I am now using mylar wine bladders and love them. Only problem is I can't get them in the USA anymore. I had a very nice and thoughtful fellow on this forum send me some from Australia where they are still in use. When I was using Boston brown bottles I would hit them with Acetylene gas from my torch set since I know it's heavier than air. We used it to blow tunnels in Vietnam since the gas would flow down instead of rise up. I tried propane and it seemed to work also, but I never tried it for any length of time to know the long-term outcome.

Tetenal has discontinued it's canned preservation spray , it was simple butane . I use my wife's little torch , but a disposable lighter would work .
Best Regards Mike

 

[Sirius Glass]

I use accordion bottles. They do keep the air out but sooner or later they fail. If they fail shortly after purchase, FreeStyle will either exchange them or refund your money.

Mine failed after about two years on one and about three or four on the other. the one that failed first was a smaller one the one that lasted longer was about 2 liter size if I remember right. I would have bought more, but it just happened that a very good photographer friend of mine passed away and his wife wanted me to clean out the basement. Long story short, I have many Boston browns and just switch to using those instead. I keep my Xtol-R in mylar wine bags and the same goes for my homemade FX-37 and Perceptol. I keep my user-stock Xtol in a gallon Boston brown topped off full, but the Xtol replenisher is in the mylar wine bag. My Pyro developers are all in Boston browns. It all seems to be working just fine this way and I hope it stays that way too.

I should really get some wine bags for the XTOL.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I should really get some wine bags for the XTOL.

The wine bag/bladder for the Xyol replenisher is really the cats meow. I just stick my little ml cup under the spigot and run out 80 or 90ml, dump it in the brown gallon jug and then top it off with the leftover developer. Slick as a whistle.

 

[Alan Johnson]

Tetenal has discontinued it's canned preservation spray , it was simple butane . I use my wife's little torch , but a disposable lighter would work .
Best Regards Mike

It still seems to be for sale and the msds confirms it is not simply butane.
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/105193-Tetenal-Protectan-Spray-400ml

 

[baachitraka]

Generally inorganic compounds will not dissolve significantly in TEA so the result would be a sulfite sludge.
An alternative would be "Mocon" , a concentrate devised by Albada where the sulfite solution is added separately.

If I understood it correctly its the ascorbate goes bad either through oxidation and presence of impurities. What role do sulfite play in oxidation?