I do not believe what I have read...

[baachitraka]

Sting of a scorpion may help to understand many things...I am from tropic, but live in Western World.

 

[BrianShaw]

Even, if you are a hunter your sole purpose to get something to cook. Isn't it?

No, not necessarily. For some it's the thrill of the kill (capture) and for others it is the trophy hung on the wall (and the rest goes to waste).

 

[keithwms]

I'm a hunter and a cook. What I am not is a salesman!

 

[largely]

I read from in a forum (can't remember if it is in here or LFPF) that you could say that some Photographers are "Hunters" and some are "Cooks". Some can be both while others choose to be only one.

To paraphrase St. Ansel "The recipe is the score and the meatloaf is the performance" LOL

 

[baachitraka]

I'm a hunter and a cook. What I am not is a salesman!

Salesman are boring, since they do not represent what they are. :-(

 

[ColdEye]

Even, if you are a hunter your sole purpose to get something to cook. Isn't it?

Not if you have the choice of having someone to cook for you.

 

[keithwms]

I personally think, it is not so easy to imprint your emotions on someone...my 2c..

We are making progress understanding each other So why do you feel compelled to imprint your emotions on someone? How about just letting that person... emote... on their own?

Just give one of your prized negs to someone else and enjoy.

~~~

Regarding the musical analogy, well, there are composers who wrote lots of instructions and were very persnickety about performances. And there are equally capable composers who wrote very little, seldom titled their pieces or even gave tempos or other indications, and were known to value differing interpretations. Classic example: the Bach preludes, there is almost nothing to guide the performer... and that has given us a lot of interesting variations. That doesn't devalue the composition in any way.

 

[baachitraka]

To paraphrase St. Ansel "The recipe is the score and the meatloaf is the performance" LOL

...but that is not before the self evaluation(which may require performance/printing)

 

[baachitraka]

We are making progress understanding each other So why do you feel compelled to imprint your emotions on someone? How about just letting that person... emote... on their own?

Just give one of your prized negs to someone else and enjoy.

~~~

Regarding the musical analogy, well, there are composers who wrote lots of instructions and were very persnickety about performances. And there are equally capable composers who wrote very little, seldom titled their pieces or even gave tempos or other indications, and were known to value differing interpretations. Classic example: the Bach preludes, there is almost nothing to guide the performer... and that has given us a lot of interesting variations. That doesn't devalue the composition in any way.

Mr. Keith,

This is question by itself, Is it possible to create a master piece(not accidental) when you are not the part of the whole?

 

[MaximusM3]

I think we're clumping photojournalism (Bresson) with everything else and that isn't quite fair. Bresson's job was to capture. That's what he did. His printers, as skilled as they were, were assigned the task of delivering an image that was already well composed and timed. At times it may have been not properly exposed, but content and moments was what mattered and that's what Bresson delivered. He was not interested in printing and he probably didn't have the time, or even the skills, but that doesn't diminish his accomplishments one little bit. Others decide to have full control for various reasons: ego, skills, time available, type of photography and mostly because they enjoy the process. I, personally, print my own negatives because I truly enjoy printing and, if I didn't, I'd simply be shooting digital and let an inkjet spit it out. As always, everyone's mileage may vary.

 

[baachitraka]

We are making progress understanding each other So why do you feel compelled to imprint your emotions on someone? How about just letting that person... emote... on their own?

Just give one of your prized negs to someone else and enjoy.

~~~

Regarding the musical analogy, well, there are composers who wrote lots of instructions and were very persnickety about performances. And there are equally capable composers who wrote very little, seldom titled their pieces or even gave tempos or other indications, and were known to value differing interpretations. Classic example: the Bach preludes, there is almost nothing to guide the performer... and that has given us a lot of interesting variations. That doesn't devalue the composition in any way.

Unfortunately, most of HCB work are master piece. I may take photographs...nevertheless, I will die one day(not a surprise)...but still, how can HCB achieved that quality(without processing what he has done)?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Henri Cartier-Bresson

He disliked developing or making his own prints. He said: "I've never been interested in the process of photography, never, never. Right from the beginning. For me, photography with a small camera like the Leica is an instant drawing." -Wikipedia.

If you give a birth to a child and you are not interested to raise them up, how can they be such a master piece.

That was Henri Cartier-Bresson's opinion. You may not like it, but that still does apply for those who still shoot slides.

Steve

 

[CGW]

A quick look at Avedon's marked-up proofs shows how involved he was in the printing process. These are included in several of the printed collections of his work. There was obviously a close relationship between him and his printer(s). Not sure why this should be a problem or regarded as unusual.

 

[BrianShaw]

That was Henri Cartier-Bresson's opinion. You may not like it, but that still does apply for those who still shoot slides.

Steve

... or Polaroid/Fujiroid.

 

[BrianShaw]

Unfortunately, most of HCB work are master piece.

I have to admit that I've only seen a small portion of his body of work, but I'll bet that there are ten-fold (or more) that weren't masterpieces.

 

[Sirius Glass]

As usual, Brian has my back covered. Just don't let lxdude back there!

 

[keithwms]

Mr. Keith,

This is question by itself, Is it possible to create a master piece(not accidental) when you are not the part of whole?

So you consider the process not to be complete until there is a print. I'd say sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. A lot of times a print is unnecessary for me and I'd very happily give my negs to someone else to play with. This is why I have some issues with the BTZS approach, I guess

So the bigger question is... what is "the whole" in your way of thinking? Isn't the experience of being there and visualizing and composing the image and enjoying the act of composition enough to constitute a "whole" experience?

You might take interests in Minor White's unconventional "zen" teachings on this subject; see if you can get your hands on Rites and Passages. White was the first master photographer whose thinking made me think I wasn't so weird after all You know, he led some very unusual seminars and the stories are quite amusing. People would show up expecting to shoot their cameras and instead would wind up meditating on a subject in a circle. Or they'd go out with cameras and not actually take any photographs, or just describe what they see and experience the frustration of not being able to "capture" it. I am not quite that far out there, but I see a lot of value in quietly contemplating/meditating, enjoying the experience, enjoying my company or my solitude, whichever the case may be... and printing if and when I feel like it.

 

[BrianShaw]

As usual, Brian has my back covered. Just don't let lxdude back there!

It's really scarey. Sometimes I think that we may inadvertantly be triplets.

 

[cliveh]

Mr. Keith,

This is question by itself, Is it possible to create a master piece(not accidental) when you are not the part of the whole?

By whole, I assume you mean finished print. But I would suggest the master piece exists at the latent image stage, regardless of whether it is destroyed before process or finished as a naff print or master print.

 

[BrianShaw]

By whole, I assume you mean finished print. But I would suggest the master piece exists at the latent image stage, regardless of whether it is destroyed before process or finished as a naff print or master print.

I like that philosophy. Did I ever tell you about my image that was capable of being a Pulitzer Prize winner. It was outside of Harrods, in Knightsbridge, on a rainy afternoon. I forgot my camera that day... but what an image it was!

 

[baachitraka]

So you consider the process not to be complete until there is a print. I'd say sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. A lot of times a print is unnecessary for me and I'd very happily give my negs to someone else to play with. This is why I have some issues with the BTZS approach, I guess

So the bigger question is... what is "the whole" in your way of thinking? Isn't the experience of being there and visualizing and composing the image and enjoying the act of composition enough to constitute a "whole" experience?

You might take interests in Minor White's unconventional "zen" teachings on this subject; see if you can get your hands on Rites and Passages. White was the first master photographer whose thinking made me think I wasn't so weird after all You know, he led some very unusual seminars and the stories are quite amusing. People would show up expecting to shoot their cameras and instead would wind up meditating on a subject in a circle. Or they'd go out with cameras and not actually take any photographs, or just describe what they see and experience the frustration of not being able to "capture" it. I am not quite that far out there, but I see a lot of value in quietly contemplating/meditating, enjoying the experience, enjoying my company or my solitude, whichever the case may be... and printing if and when I feel like it.

I'm from East, it is not just the Photography that is possible through a practice Meditation/Spiritualism. But, I only wonder how easy for someone like HCB who can imprint his(what ever it may be) on someone to bring a Master Piece.

 

[baachitraka]

By whole, I assume you mean finished print. But I would suggest the master piece exists at the latent image stage, regardless of whether it is destroyed before process or finished as a naff print or master print.

Not really at all. I only interested in the transient transformation(later I can call that its mine or other can call its yours)...

 

[cliveh]

I like that philosophy. Did I ever tell you about my image that was capable of being a Pulitzer Prize winner. It was outside of Harrods, in Knightsbridge, on a rainy afternoon. I forgot my camera that day... but what an image it was!

I value this post, as I have had the same experience without a camera many times.

 

[keithwms]

I only wonder how easy for someone like HCB who can imprint his(what ever it may be) on someone to bring a Master Piece.

Because everything that really needed to be said was in the image. Why do you think a successful image needs to have accompanying instructions?

And on a practical level, I doubt there is much ambiguity in his negs, they are very graphical and well composed. I doubt there is any need to burn and dodge to impart drama or emphasis to most of his images.

Also bear in mind that there are deliberate games with camera angle etc that he played; if he actually had a spirit level, he'd probably have used it to make sure that the camera wasn't level when you thought it should be. So he probably actively nurtured that spontaneous look. Recent revelations about his rough drafts seem to suggest that.

Anyway, I haven't seen HCBs negs but I bet you they are fun to work with. And let's give credit where it's due, whoever he did or didn't work with as a printer was also very good.

 

[largely]

I like that philosophy. Did I ever tell you about my image that was capable of being a Pulitzer Prize winner. It was outside of Harrods, in Knightsbridge, on a rainy afternoon. I forgot my camera that day... but what an image it was!

I'm glad to hear this. I thought I was the only one. I have lots of these images. LOL

Larry