I am done with Velvia....

[DavidClapp]

I thought of Sekonic's occasional online tutorials that guide people through the fundamentals of spot metering. I also thought of Ansel Adams' "The Negative", with its explanation and application of spot metering. "The Negative" deals heavily with the Zone System (i N a black and white context), but the basic metering principals still apply.

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I'll do some googling.... I was after something more Velvia specific I guess. Of all my experience with cameras this is the only avenue I wonder along that I find super difficult.

 

[pentaxpete]

I had never used much 'Velvia 50' until i was GIVEN loads by a Camera Club member, all outdated -- so I loaded up my Contax RTSII Quartz and took some in London in The Mall of the procession of carriages, occasion of State Opening of Parliament by the Queen -- WOW the CONTRAST as it was SUNNY with blue skies -- my PRINT results with my Yashica FR1 were on outdated Fuji Superia 100 and also contrasty but printed OK --- i rated the Velvia 50 at 40 ASA and the print film at 80 ASA as it was outdated --- then I went to POLAND and used my Pentax LX loaded with some Velvia 50 from same batch and rated it at 32 ASA not 40 and EVERY Photo was GOOD -- I taken only ONE frame never 'bracket' -- so then took MORE of the Velvia 50 to PHILIPPINES in a Pentax ME Super, rated it at 32 ASA and EVERY Photo was GOOD --- so CAMERAS were not to blame for under-exposure. Only on a couple of occasions did I use the 'Exposure Compensation' dial to give + exposure.
Krakow, Poland Pentax LX + 24mm f2.8 Carl Zeiss Jena lens
Krakow : Recycling bins by Peter Elgar, on Flickr

Carbon Market, bright sun, Pentax ME Super, 28-80mm f3.5-4.5 SMC Pentax-A lens
Phils 2015 :Carbon Market, Cebu by Peter Elgar, on Flickr

 

[markbarendt]

Yes I think I need a good spot metering lesson. I think my main problems are firstly using the wrong film for the wrong picture, attempting to use Velvia when the scene has too greater dynamic range and ballsing up my metering by not using the spot meter. Can anyone recommend some reading?

Exposure Manual Dunn & Wakefield
3rd or 4th edition
normally available used for a couple bucks plus shipping

 

[Ronald Moravec]

Users are impressed by high contrast saturated film so that is what they make. About all you can do is overexpose and cut time in first developer or use some professional negative film or buy a digital camera with flat exposure mode where there is total control. Last option is bracket and do HDR in photoshop.

I now use only B&W film .

 

[analoguey]

I'll do some googling.... I was after something more Velvia specific I guess. Of all my experience with cameras this is the only avenue I wonder along that I find super difficult.

David,
I wonder if you won't be better served by comparing notes on the ' good' vs underexposed slides you have already shot - that should tell you what in your current style of photographing works and what doesn't. Recreating a couple of the shots(good and underexposed) with say 2 stop bracketing would probably narrow it further.

*Consistent* underexposure may not necessarily point to needing a whole lot of changes?

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[markbarendt]

I'll do some googling.... I was after something more Velvia specific I guess. Of all my experience with cameras this is the only avenue I wonder along that I find super difficult.

This thought is an indication that Velvia is the problem, not you.

IMO Velvia can be used very well and provide very nice results, but Velvia is a Drama Queen.

 

[KidA]

Pegasus (Kodak) RA4 production, Roger. The only manipulation is replacement of loss at the scan step e.g. light lost from the image through scanning is replaced a little over 1x, as a bit more will also be lost in printing (typically 0.3 stop) and gamut interleaving, print profiling. The whole process is very speedy, but printing still takes about 2 weeks given lab timelines and the running of the printer in batch jobbing in Fridays only. That means my 5 big prints of New Zealand will be run off tomorrow and collected on Monday. Happy as! I would still urge the OP to not give up on Velvia, and I suspect there is a problem with technique and/or the camera set up.

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So sorry for my very limited knowledge on the subject, but can you breifly explain the process? You mention scan... is there any way to make an optical print from slides by using only optical methods? I'm kinda new to slides...

 

[Sirius Glass]

So sorry for my very limited knowledge on the subject, but can you breifly explain the process? You mention scan... is there any way to make an optical print from slides by using only optical methods? I'm kinda new to slides...

Yes, if you have direct positive paper. I have not seen it for years but others may have some or have a source.

 

[Roger Cole]

Two other ways are to reversal process RA4, which only works well for some images apparently, and to make an internegative and print that on RA4. There are threads here about reversal processing RA4. I have not tried either of these methods. I did used to print slides on both Kodak type R paper and Ilfochrome but both are now long gone.


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[GarageBoy]

Welp- I shot a roll of Velvia on a cheap Yashica FX-D- and some kentucky windage on the exposure compensation- let's see how it comes out...
This thread is making me nervous


Guess I should give it a shot on MF too

 

[Alan Klein]

Yes I think I need a good spot metering lesson. I think my main problems are firstly using the wrong film for the wrong picture, attempting to use Velvia when the scene has too greater dynamic range and ballsing up my metering by not using the spot meter. Can anyone recommend some reading?

I shoot 120 using either a 10% spot or incident meter and then bracket my exposures for landscape +1 and -1 using the shutter and shoot in all lighting. I like RVP but these things are all personal likes and dislikes. Good luck and post some results.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/tags/velvia/

 

[markbarendt]

Welp- I shot a roll of Velvia on a cheap Yashica FX-D- and some kentucky windage on the exposure compensation- let's see how it comes out...
This thread is making me nervous


Guess I should give it a shot on MF too

A lot depends on what one intends and on the subject matter.

For say a sunset or sunrise Velvia isn't that tough to use and get the colors, the detail in the shadow will typically be marginal to non-exsistant. Front lit subjects are very doable. Use that same sunset as a backdrop for a portrait or where something in the shadows is important and you are facing a significant challenge that may only be solvable with well planned and executed artificial light.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

It's been decades since I've used Velvia but I remember it worked best under somewhat subdued lighting conditions and I had to carefully watch color filtering. Otherwise, highlights got blown out and/or shadows were lost and/or color shift was severe. That's largely true of all slide film but Velvia was especially sensitive to scene contrast and color.

 

[ME Super]

But I can't admire the orange look I get if I project my Ektar negatives to several feet size...

Ok I suppose they could be scanned and projected digitally but with nowhere near the resolution.


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This. +1000

 

[removed account4]

It's been decades since I've used Velvia but I remember it worked best under somewhat subdued lighting conditions and I had to carefully watch color filtering. Otherwise, highlights got blown out and/or shadows were lost and/or color shift was severe. That's largely true of all slide film but Velvia was especially sensitive to scene contrast and color.

hi onf

the boxes of velveeta i loved to use were about 7 years expired shelf stored
and exposed in a graflex slr ... i'd bring the film to the lab and when i received them
back they'd tell me there was something wrong with my film but just smiled
when i scanned them they looked fantastic, like paintings ..
i wasn't too choozy about my subjects, they could have been portraits or landscapes
or florals .. they had a nice color palette and quality to them that i miss in other
color films ( be they chrome or cn ) it breaks my heart that locally i can't
get the chromes processed, and if i send them out of state, it will cost between 4 and 7 dollars a piece .. ( which means 700$+ of processing )
and i dont' really want to delve into doing my own e6 processing, while it will be low-scale and in a unicolor drum
i don't want to deal with the chemis or having to transport them to where i can have them harvested and recycled ..
dektol and coffee are nice, but not really colorful, if you know what i mean.

 

[timparkin]

Velvia Metering and Dynamic Range

Velvia is the most frustrating film I have ever worked with. It doesn't matter whether I use a light meter or a digital camera as a light meter I throw 80% of my shots straight into the bin. It's so depressing. I had two films back this afternoon and only two shots out of twelve are worth scanning. (they are all 6x12's shot on a large format camera)

I can't work out what is going wrong, but I see little point in continuing to use this frustrating film, that essentially looks like something I can post process out of a digital camera. Can anyone give me any pointers?

Colour negative is a total joy in comparison!

1) you really need a spot meter for Velvia (which I believe you have)
2) If you have skies in your picture you'll probably need graduated filters (typically a two stop for most stuff but quite often a one or a three for accurate placement - mostly hard grads I would imagine)
3) Velvia has 8 stops of dynamic range.. People will disagree but I run a drum scanning service and have tested this. The highlights for Velvia blow quickly for cold subjects but you can get an extra stop for warm subjects (bright warm light burns out to yellow - blue light burns out to cyan).
4) if you're drum scanning you can set your meter to ISO 40, place highlight at + 1 2/3 and shadows should be OK at -3 or possibly -4 ... Your highlights can go up to +2.5 near the sun or in warm subjects - you'll lose texture in the last half a stop but will get yellow colour (hence why suns look yellow with Velvia).

You will definitely be getting vignetting of about 2/3 of a stop for most lenses and for your 65 you might well be getting 2 stops in the corners. I'd recommend a centre filter or comensate with graduated filters.

Tim

 

[removed account4]

i have a full and a partially full box of velvia (50 ) and provia (4x5 )
i don't have anyone local to process sheets of chromes or color negative film
so i plan on exposing them and processing them in plain old b/w developer
so i don't have to deal with miniscule latitude or excessive processing fees ...

actually, i am selling them off
instead of dealing with processing myself
let someone else enjoy the vividness.

 

[eddyd]

I cross process all my slide film for the effects so I am good with it.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I have yet to see anyone use grad filters in a manner that didn't end up looking fake. And a good illusionist should never show his hand.
There's a particular brand out there named for a particular outdoor photographer once addicted to them - and every damn shot he ever took with them looks ridiculously fake to me. Gosh, when are people going to learn that a chrome that looks great and snappy on a lightbox might not be all that easy to print. And since people scan and doctor up everything nowadays on PS anyway, and don't understand the distinction between color and noise, why do they even worry about the film? Don't get me wrong. I've shot my share of Velvia, even in 8x10. But I used it when a contrast boost was warranted, like in misty fog, not just to jar the senses.

 

[DavidClapp]

I have yet to see anyone use grad filters in a manner that didn't end up looking fake. And a good illusionist should never show his hand.
There's a particular brand out there named for a particular outdoor photographer once addicted to them - and every damn shot he ever took with them looks ridiculously fake to me. Gosh, when are people going to learn that a chrome that looks great and snappy on a lightbox might not be all that easy to print. And since people scan and doctor up everything nowadays on PS anyway, and don't understand the distinction between color and noise, why do they even worry about the film? Don't get me wrong. I've shot my share of Velvia, even in 8x10. But I used it when a contrast boost was warranted, like in misty fog, not just to jar the senses.

You echo the exact reason I left film in 2006 and headed to digital. I spent years wrestling with grads and hated the look they gave. The results looked so bad on film, especially in high contrast situations or with high contrast film like Velvia. I cleared all this up by exposure blending my Canon 5D in Photoshop.

For me it continues my intrigue with colour, that and bloody minded will to conquer using it correctly. But I have to say I have ended up rather 'negative' now, with Pro400H being my favoured go-to film of choice.

 

[DREW WILEY]

David. I've pretty much figured out Ektar, even in mixed-light situations, meaning natural light where part of the scene is in open sun and part in deep blue shade. But that's not much consolation, since the price of 8x10 Ektar has doubled in just a year. Fortunately, I still have a few boxes in the freezer and shoot smaller more affordable formats too. But since I cut my teeth on chromes, and never did use either grads or polarizers, Ektar is a piece of cake, exposure-wise. Color temp is a different story. It's not very forgiving in that respect like Portra or other classically skin-balanced color neg films are. I do my own color printing, so can film mask in the same manner a digital image can be curve-tweaked. In the past, when Cibachrome was still available, I loved Velvia for certain hue under very specific conditions. But it only amounted to a very small percentage of my overall chrome film use. Most people simply don't understand that a chrome that
looks stunning on a light box might not be an ideal one to actually print.

 

[silentworld]

David, I understand your struggle with Velvia. It is not the easiest film to use for sure. However, don't give up on it. When used rightly, the result is amazing.

I love Velvia for what it is, a high contrast film best used in low contrast scene. What really attracts me is not necessarily the high color saturation, which could be adjusted in photoshop if that is the only difference between Velvia and negative film. What really attracts me is its color separation under soft light. I just got back a few rolls of slides from my trip to Rockies in the fall. I am amazed about all the different shades of green and gold colors in the forest shots I made. When I look at the film on the light table, it is as if time got dialed back and I am back in Rockies again in front of the mountains and forests again. No shots from my Sony A7ii on the scene can compare in terms of color separation. My experience with negative film such as Ektar 100 could be hit and miss in terms of color separation (based on scans from Coolscan 9000), and maybe I just haven't mastered the negative film yet.

Now I rarely use Velvia in mid day high contrast scene. It is not Velvia's specialty and my experience has been that the shots I get are not going to be keepers so why waste the film. I would fall back to negative film if I have to make a shot, but to be honest it is hard to make a good landscape shot with anything (maybe other than B&W) under that kind of lighting, so I might as well just forget about photography and just hike and enjoy the view.

Metering for Velvia needs to be precise but doesn't have to be difficult. A good book on how to metering for Velvia (or other slide film) is The Backpacker's Photography Handbook. It is out of print but there are still many used ones floating around. For the rolls I shot on my last trip, I would say that exposure are good enough for 80% of them for me to have a good scan. FYI, I use a Pentax digital spotmeter.

Grads are challenging to use. for smaller formats (35mm or 645, which I use), soft grads could be more useful than hard grads. Also, there are many things you can shoot without using grads. Many of my favorite shots with Velvia are detail shots with a normal lens or a moderate telephoto. It is all about matching the tool to the job.

Hopefully you can get over the learning curve quickly and start enjoying Velvia.

 

[DREW WILEY]

There are certain shades of green early in Spring here, normally in February (this is Calif), which no other film seems capable of differentiating. The problem is that very few lenses are themselves capable of resolving these. I'd have to reach for a multicoated dagor or
Nikkor M, which both have a minimum number of air/glass interfaces. But then, translating such precise hues into actual print color, that
was indeed a challenge.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Spring here in Australia is causing Vaudeville Velvia to jump off the palette, and the bright sun appearing unexpectedly has caused a sweaty brow recently. The greens and yellows of the verdant ferns, lichens and mosses are adorable and speak honestly of the richness and renewal of the new season. I'm getting the final print queue under way now which clears the way for the extended holiday and travelling season.

The four paragraphs mentioned by silentworld in the foregoing post more or less sum up the preceding discourse and are worth taking on board. But Velvia is and will remain more challenging to use in the smaller e.g. 35mm formats than the larger. It's relatively easy for 5x4, 6x7 and other (now defunct) sizes with the contrast spread out over a wider area. The 80% success rate quoted is about right for 35mm. After 20 years I'd had enough of that.

 

[Athiril]

Velvia worked very well for me, 50 at least, iirc 50 holds onto highlights a bit longer without a sharp as cut off as the others.