Using a Hasselblad for portraits is a downer, the head size is difficult enlarge since each lens in the line create nearly the exact same size head size as the 80mm Planar. To do head and shoulders the head size on the negative/Trans is so small that the actual image is nearly the same proportion as one done with 35mm. Joe Karsh liked em,
but I am not J.K.
... and I don't feel the optics today are nearly as good as they once were.
Just a minor technical problem with that statement. Almost all the Hasselblad lenses use the same prescription of the original lenses. The new lenses have better coatings and some were slightly revised to closer focusing. Both of which can only be considered improvements.
Are you saying that it is your considered experience that new photons behave differently that the photons in the past? Such logic puts me on the fast track to discounting anything you say.
Steve
There are times when (even with Zeiss lenses) that formulas get altered to go with a cheaper glass (esp. with the advent of supercomputing etc) that may not give QUITE the performance of a time-tested formula. Lens casings (i.e. the barrel) tend to get cheaper and crappier as time goes on - all brass in favor of plastic alloy composites do no image a favor! So- I'm just saying that as the cost goes down, compromises are let in to the design. Simply that there IS a case to suggest that newer lenses CAN be, in fact, worse. In some ways.
But Zeiss did not switch the glass in the Hasselblad lenses.
I'll bet you they did, Sirius... probably a few times. It doesn't mean they'd announce it. But I'll bet you if you could comb through their engineering archives - you'd find something. There were probably LOTS of times when they had to substitute glass because they could no longer get it from the same source. And hell- just THINK about it for a second. There are LOTS of times when a load of flint or crown glass blanks whose refractive index would drift out of spec. I'll guarantee you that's happened LOTS of times!
Anyway, you can't change glass for cheaper glass, having the same properties.
By the way- just so you understand where I'm coming from... that's not at all what I was trying to suggest - that they were wanting to use 'cheaper glass' - I don't think there's any such thing anyway...
There are times when (even with Zeiss lenses) that formulas get altered to go with a cheaper glass (esp. with the advent of supercomputing etc) that may not give QUITE the performance of a time-tested formula. [...]
And now that i am awake:
So, you weren't trying to suggest such a thing? Really?
I think that the Biogon formula was changed for environmental reasons, not because of cheaper glass. As fas as I know, the new formula is lead-free.
Honest to god, QG. Not. I was trying to suggest it would be well worth their while, cheaper and smarter to reformulate to something that uses LESS glass, where possible.. if it becomes less expensive to manufacture - and the lens is just as great... why not??? I wasn't ever trying to suggest that they compromise on their quality at ALL. But a large manufacturing company like Zeiss, I'm sure, has a LOT of pressure on it to save money where it's rational and where it doesn't compromise the quality of their product...
that's all I was thinking I guess...
They didn't.
Anyway, you can't change glass for cheaper glass, having the same properties.
If it doesn't have the same properties, the design is of no use and you need to start again. If it does, it is the same as the one that would be more expensive, so why would it be cheaper?
Zeiss, by the way, make their own glass, are their own source. Schott is part of the Zeiss conglomerate, ever since Carl Zeiss, Ernst Abbe and Otto Schott got together in the 1870s.
And Schott is very capable of producing glass that is in spec.
You know, it's not just a freak accident that they do. Nor that they do that routinely.
So i can guarantee you that it never happened.
Well, Sparky... you can dismiss being professional about what you do as being religious. You can also try to shrug criticism off as being religious.
The plain and simple truth (of the non-religious kind) however is that what you said was BS.
It really is.
Why, pray tell, do you want to suggest that someone said that everything Zeiss did and does is perfect, while noone did? Who gave Zeiss too much credit, how, and when?
That is indeed the problem when opinions become a religion, and one such as you would not dare to question the factual incorrectness of what you utter in a public place.
So how about it? You tell us how you can keep a lens design going, but use different glass.
Tell us how Zeiss would be caught out by a supplier not supplying what they want them to supply when they themselves are their own supplier of glass.
And you know do who it was who started making glass according to specifications?
Because it sure sounds like you take the way you would do things, and assume everyone else must do it the same way too.
Sure there is variability in Q.C. And not all Zeiss lenses (of one batch) are equally good. But all are within specs. No worries.
There's nothing religious about it, i.e. it's not a matter of believe, and of believe only. It's the result of being professional about what you do.
Yes, there certainly is something like cheaper glass. Depends on how strict your specs are, and how close you want it to be to specification.
The advent of computers in lens design meant more glass being used, not less.
The more glass, the more complicated the calculations. Those modern 1,000 element IF AF lenses we have today would not have been possible if they too had had to have been calculated using a mechanical desktop calculator. Now we see nothing but such thingies.
Anyway, the thing still is that Steve was right: most Zeiss lenses for Hasselblad (and Rollei) have remained unchanged since they were first introduced.
The few other ones weren't changed either, but replaced by better ones. Despite you believing so, not something a manufacturer would keep a secret (wouldn't make sense to hush something like that up, would it?). So, for instance, a Tele-Tessar was replaced by an Tele-Apotessar, another Tele-Tessar was replaced by a Superachromat, etc.
One exception: the Biogon was recalculated 'recently' (a relative term). True to Zeiss, the new one is just as good (though different) as the old one. But not better, showing that even though computers made things possible that weren't before, they did now what they were doing 60 years ago too. (But pointing out that professionals know their stuff doesn't sit well with you, does it?)
I think that the Biogon formula was changed for environmental reasons, not because of cheaper glass. As fas as I know, the new formula is lead-free.
Don't forget that Zeiss sell products at a price reflecting that those are of uncompromisingly high quality. And that people happily (well...) pay that price. So they are doing pretty well.
So i don't know about that pressure... what pressure?
As for your more pointed question - well... I think it would be a fairly simple thing to adjust a lens formulation for a drifting refractive index... I mean - just change the curvature of the corresponding element and run the calculations through the whole design and go back and forth until you have a winner. I don't think there's any huge mystery to the science and art of lens design. All I'm trying to say is that they probably have a strategy for dealing with aberrations (no pun intended!) in their supply chain. And they're probably also highly motivated to cut costs and improve profit margins. They're a company after all. Is that not what companies DO? It seems reasonable to me.
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