Hypo-clear

mporter012 · Mar 2, 2014

Quick question regarding hypo-clear. I'm doing some at home film development, and want to try using hypo-clear to reduce wash times.

After developing, stopping, and fixing - I then wash, followed by 1 minute of hypo-clear? How long is it recommended that I wash after using hypo-clear.

Typically I develop, stop, fix, rinse with city water, and then rinse twice with distilled water in developing tank. If I don't rinse with distilled water after the initial rinse, Chicago water leaves some nasty residue on the film.

Thanks,

Mark

Sirius Glass · Mar 2, 2014

Hypo clear is for paper.

You are not washing the film enough. After washing the film should be rinsed with Kodak PhotoFlo or other equivalent. Do not even think about using liquid soap or anything else in place of Kodak PhotoFlo or other equivalent.

MartinP · Mar 2, 2014

There isn't much benefit using hypo-clear for film, as the fixer doesn't soak in to the filmbase (having said that I did once see paper 'film', but it was from the 1960's and found at the back of a drawer belonging to someones deceased relative).

Simply follow the instructions of the film/chemical manufacturer. If using a rapid-fix then read up on the "Ilford" wash method - that is still a lot more washing than you are currently using, but not very much more water . . .

mporter012 · Mar 2, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
Hypo clear is for paper.

You are not washing the film enough. After washing the film should be rinsed with Kodak PhotoFlo or other equivalent. Do not even think about using liquid soap or anything else in place of Kodak PhotoFlo or other equivalent.

What I understand, according to Kodak's recommendations, is that hypo-clear reduces washing times per the chart they provide. 5 minutes vs 20-30 without. I hate the idea of leaving the water running for 30 minutes. I shut it off when I brush my teeth!

I just wanted some clarification to make sure I'm doing things correctly. We have a film dryer in the darkroom, so I've never used photo-flo, but I suppose I should at home.

mporter012 · Mar 2, 2014

MartinP said:
There isn't much benefit using hypo-clear for film, as the fixer doesn't soak in to the filmbase (having said that I did once see paper 'film', but it was from the 1960's and found at the back of a drawer belonging to someones deceased relative).

Simply follow the instructions of the film/chemical manufacturer. If using a rapid-fix then read up on the "Ilford" wash method - that is still a lot more washing than you are currently using, but not very much more water . . .

See page 2 of this chart. I know it's not a requirement to use, but it cuts down on wash times correct? How does rapid fixer vs regular affect wash times?
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/aj3/aj3.pdf

bdial · Mar 2, 2014

mporter012 said:
See page 2 of this chart. I know it's not a requirement to use, but it cuts down on wash times correct? How does rapid fixer vs regular affect wash times?
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/aj3/aj3.pdf

No difference in wash times for rapid or regular fixer.
As noted, hypo-clear does cut down the wash time for film or paper. As I recall, without hypo-clear, Kodak's recommendation for film washing is 20 minutes in running water.

RattyMouse · Mar 3, 2014

mporter012 said:
I hate the idea of leaving the water running for 30 minutes. I shut it off when I brush my teeth!

Why? Water prices in Chicago are dirt cheap. Any water down the drain is either reclaimed by the city and "sold" again after treatment or reclaimed by nature and "sold" again in future.

Xmas · Mar 3, 2014

wash time is temperature dependent...
15 minutes of running water is expensive above15C
Ilfords three changes after clear is archival
California and China have water problems already

gone · Mar 3, 2014

People seem to think that when water goes down the drain, it's gone. No. In most cities it goes into the sewer collection pipes, then to the water treatment facility to be treated before its sent back into local streams and rivers, then back into the ocean. Remember, matter cannot be created nor destroyed. Nothing comes, nor goes, from nothing. All the atoms that exist in the universe were there upon it's creation. Matter is simply transformed into other forms of energy. Even in our vast oceans (which are rapidly being dangerously polluted by the insane radioactive leaking from Japan, where there is a world wide news coverup), the water evaporates into the earth's atmosphere, collects into storm clouds, and comes back down to earth as rain. This is what should scare people. Radioactive nuclear heavy water being allowed to flow freely into our oceans, not a little photographic film water going into the drain.

While it's true that some areas of earth experience temporary water shortages due to poorly planned infrastructure (resulting in overly concentrated human populations), and poor use of existing water resources, other places have too much water and often suffer flooding. Science is an amazing thing. There are more possible brain cell synapse connections in one human brain than there are atoms in the entire known universe. Use them.

Hypo is for paper, not film.

peteyj10 · Mar 3, 2014

Stick with a rapid fixer and don't use hypo-clear for film...and if you print with resin coated paper, don't use it for paper either. Also, no need to use distilled water when washing. I used Chicago tap water in the lab at Loyola, and I use Chicago tap water in my apartment. The key is to use PhotoFlo...or if you need to in a pinch, Jet Dry. Fill the film tank up, put in a drop or two, and swirl the reels. It's as easy as that.

Xmas · Mar 3, 2014

momus said:
While it's true that some areas of earth experience temporary water shortages due to poorly planned infrastructure (resulting in overly concentrated human populations), and poor use of existing water resources, other places have too much water and often suffer flooding. Science is an amazing thing.

confirm temporary if you mean a century or longer
suggest google 'global warming'...

everyone knows about reactor accidents and thermo nuclear atmospheric tests but unless it rains in SCalf soon the toilets won't flush and they will only have bottled water to wash with...

water is too expensive to move, building on flood plains is/was silly, sea levels can change

the 20th Century was exceptionally wet in some areas

be happy

john_s · Mar 3, 2014

momus said:
.......... While it's true that some areas of earth experience temporary water shortages due to poorly planned infrastructure (resulting in overly concentrated human populations), and poor use of existing water resources, other places have too much water and often suffer flooding. Science is an amazing thing. There are more possible brain cell synapse connections in one human brain than there are atoms in the entire known universe. Use them.

There are too many people on this planet. Eventually Nature will limit the population, and it's not going to be pleasant, but in the meantime using more water than is necessary is wasteful in very many parts of the world (not yours I assume).

RattyMouse · Mar 3, 2014

john_s said:
There are too many people on this planet. Eventually Nature will limit the population, and it's not going to be pleasant, but in the meantime using more water than is necessary is wasteful in very many parts of the world (not yours I assume).

Water is not wasted. It is always in cycle. Unless you are using electrolysis to break apart water molecules. Then water is in fact, actually lost.

Doremus Scudder · Mar 3, 2014

Back on-topic:

Hypo-Clearing Agent or the like is not needed for film, but will reduce wash times somewhat and often helps to remove the pink/purple cast that stubbornly stay in some film. Don't use it if you use a staining developer, since it will remove the stain.

You don't have to leave the water running for your entire film wash time. Several changes of water with agitation during the wash cycle is equally as effective. (There's a sticky thread on film washing here on APUG somewhere that would be informative!)

Although Kodak says you can use Hypo Clear and then wash for only five minutes, washing a bit longer will not do any damage.

Your final soak in distilled water to get rid of the tap water minerals can simply be extended to a few minutes and give you an extra bit of wash.

The Kodak document linked to above gives you all you need for good processing technique.

Best,

Doremus

Sirius Glass · Mar 3, 2014

momus said:
...

Hypo is for paper, not film.

Hypo is fixer. Hypo is for both film and paper.

Hypo Clear is not fixer. Hypo Clear can be used after hypo, to reduce the remaining hypo and thus reduce wash times.

Referring to Hypo Clear by calling is hypo, is just plain wrong and misleading to others.

Please use terminology correctly.

RalphLambrecht · Mar 3, 2014

mporter012 said:
See page 2 of this chart. I know it's not a requirement to use, but it cuts down on wash times correct? How does rapid fixer vs regular affect wash times?
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/aj3/aj3.pdf

no in theory rapid fixers reduce wash times,because, a rapid fix gives the fixer less time to soak deep into the fibers. the strategy is : strong rapid fixing is better than long weaker fixing.

RalphLambrecht · Mar 3, 2014

Xmas said:
confirm temporary if you mean a century or longer
suggest google 'global warming'...

everyone knows about reactor accidents and thermo nuclear atmospheric tests but unless it rains in SCalf soon the toilets won't flush and they will only have bottled water to wash with...

water is too expensive to move, building on flood plains is/was silly, sea levels can change

the 20th Century was exceptionally wet in some areas

be happy

why is global warming always where i'm not?

removed account4 · Mar 3, 2014

mporter012 said:
Quick question regarding hypo-clear. I'm doing some at home film development, and want to try using hypo-clear to reduce wash times.

After developing, stopping, and fixing - I then wash, followed by 1 minute of hypo-clear? How long is it recommended that I wash after using hypo-clear.

Typically I develop, stop, fix, rinse with city water, and then rinse twice with distilled water in developing tank. If I don't rinse with distilled water after the initial rinse, Chicago water leaves some nasty residue on the film.

Thanks,

Mark

hi mark

i don't use hypo clear but perma wash ( similar but a little different )
i fix 2x in separate fix baths for recommended times
rinse film ( and paper ) for recommended time
then into the perma wash for recommended time
then wash out perma wash for recommended time ( sometimes 2x that time if i am paranoid )

i think for film it is something like 2 mins rinse, 2min perma, then 2min wash,
double weight paper 5 mins wash &c
single weight paper, half that ..
since i can't remember, i consult the package ( not all brands are the same ) .

the hypo clear is a substance ( sodium sulfate ? ) that grabs free floating fixer/hypo molecules off of your film / paper / water
and helps you clear your film /paper/ stuff of these molecules that are just hanging out, not doing anything.
( it is based on the us navy's using sea water to reduce wash times in ww2, similar stuff )
just do what the package of your hypo clear says to do and you won't have troubles and it will reduce your wash times.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
also has info on the soak-method ..

have fun
john

Xmas · Mar 3, 2014

RattyMouse said:
Water is not wasted. It is always in cycle. Unless you are using electrolysis to break apart water molecules. Then water is in fact, actually lost.

Yes but unless it rains in Aus or SCalfornia their reservoirs will empty cause they were sized too small.

If they were sized for the 20th century they are or will be too small if the 21st is more typical of normal centuries.

This is not a new thought 40 years ago one of out eko freaks was on UK national TV dropping plastic bricks into US toilet cisterns cause they were too large.

Looks like he was correct.

Sirius Glass · Mar 3, 2014

Xmas said:
Yes but unless it rains in Aus or SCalfornia their reservoirs will empty cause they were sized too small.

The reason that they are the size they are is because they were built as large as the geography would permit for each one. There is no need to go into psycho-political rants in this thread.

Mainecoonmaniac · Mar 3, 2014

Going through the California drought, I'm paying more attention to using hypo clear to reduce water use.

MattKing · Mar 3, 2014

One further point - if you wash in running water, the flow should be very slow and gentle. Kodak's recommendations are to either:

a) use running water: "Run the wash water at least fast enough to provide a complete change of water in the container in 5 minutes"; or
b) use a fill and dump regimen: "For rapid washing in a small tank, fill the tank to overflowing with fresh water and then dump it all out. Repeat this cycle 10 times."

Greg Davis did some very useful work on this very subject, and there is a Stick Thread that reports his results: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Sirius Glass · Mar 3, 2014

Xmas said:
Yes but unless it rains in Aus or SCalfornia their reservoirs will empty cause they were sized too small.

The Glen Canyon Dam, which the environmentalists fought but was built anyway, cannot be kept filled and is mostly empty now. It is a good idea to know the real facts, not the faith based facts based on what one had for breakfast before posting.

Mainecoonmaniac · Mar 3, 2014

I worked for a graduate of Brooks and now long time friend. He made this film washer out of an old gallon milk jug with holes on the bottom and a tab cut on top. I made one and I've been using it for 30 years. Seems to work well.

Xmas · Mar 3, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
The Glen Canyon Dam, which the environmentalists fought but was built anyway, cannot be kept filled and is mostly empty now. It is a good idea to know the real facts, not the faith based facts based on what one had for breakfast before posting.

There are not any real facts any more you can deny global warming and extreme droughts ever happened in pre history to Peblo people in four corners.

I use hypo clear followed by three tempered baths and we have too much water but need to use heat to get to 20C.

Im a statistion, good luck.

Hypo-clear

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