Hypo BEFORE Fixer

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mccolalx

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I was reading over the directions for Harvey's 777, and they listed steps for using the developer.
It says "When development is completed, quickly dump the contents into an empty graduate, and refill with the Stop Bath; allow to remain for 30 seconds, pour off, replace with hypo-and proceed with fixation".
Is this just using the term "hypo" for "fixer" (maybe from the days before a separate hypo stage)?
 

MattKing

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"Hypo" is fixer!

"Hypo" has been shorthand for fixer for a very long time. I believe that this came from an older name for one type of fixer (sodium hypo-sulfate, IIRC).

Hypo-eliminator (correction hypo-clearing agent) is a post-fixing treatment designed to speed removal of fixer ("Hypo") from the film or paper.

I'm not sure where and when the practice arose to start abbreviating hypo-eliminator (correction hypo-clearing agent) to "hypo", but I see it fairly frequently now. It should be avoided, because that abbreviation has been taken :smile:.

Matt

PS Thanks Jordan for the reminder that I need to be more careful with my use of hypo clearing agent
 
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mccolalx

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thanks...i thought that that may be the case
 

Denis R

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avoid the hypo!

Ilford makes it easy for us.

The fixing agent in ILFORD RAPID FIXER is
ammonium thiosulphate, it contains no sodium
thiosulphate (hypo).

with no hypo, no hypo clear is needed, which eliminates all confusion....
 

Jordan

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Hypo is an old short term for what we now call sodium thiosulfate. That's why shortening hypo clearing agent to "hypo" is so confusing.

IIRC hypo clearing agent and hypo eliminator are two different things -- most people use hypo clearing agent, which speeds removal of fixer by mostly physical means (swelling emulsion, etc.). Hypo eliminator works by chemically oxidizing the leftover sodium thiosulfate. From what I can see, hypo eliminator is hard to come by these days.
 

Anscojohn

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I was reading over the directions for Harvey's 777, and they listed steps for using the developer.
It says "When development is completed, quickly dump the contents into an empty graduate, and refill with the Stop Bath; allow to remain for 30 seconds, pour off, replace with hypo-and proceed with fixation".
Is this just using the term "hypo" for "fixer" (maybe from the days before a separate hypo stage)?
*******
rendered as "pour in the fixer and proceed with fixation" takes the mystery out.
 

bdial

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...More terminology confusion...

Ilford makes it easy for us.

The fixing agent in ILFORD RAPID FIXER is
ammonium thiosulphate, it contains no sodium
thiosulphate (hypo).

with no hypo, no hypo clear is needed, which eliminates all confusion....

Actually, hypo clear is used with both kinds of fixer.

Hypo clear is not a necessary step, though it can reduce the wash times required after whatever type of fixer you use.
 
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I'm confused and need help. I thought there was such a thing as 'plain hypo' - which, to my recollection, is something that can be used as a second fixing bath, and supposedly has lower capacity than normal fixer and would quickly become exhausted if it was the only fixer used.
Or is this the sodium thiosulfate spoken of above?
 

Anon Ymous

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Plain hypo fixer is fixer consisting of sodium thiosulfate alone. It will fix film/paper, but has poor keeping properties.
 
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Thanks. Is my statement of lower capacity true or not? (I do understand that plain hypo is best mixed just prior to using it).

Plain hypo fixer is fixer consisting of sodium thiosulfate alone. It will fix film/paper, but has poor keeping properties.
 

Anscojohn

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Plain hypo fixer is fixer consisting of sodium thiosulfate alone. It will fix film/paper, but has poor keeping properties.
*****
Some people will use a plain hypo (sodium thiosulphate, ca. 25% solution) as a last step before a slight bit of selenium toning to strengthen the blacks. They claim it prevents stains.

As others have said, "hypo" is a carryover from the 1830s, when Herschel discovered the ability of sodium thiosulfate (aka sodium hypo-sulfate) to fix an image.

You want confusion: how about the guy who read that the tap water for his fish tank could be de-chlorinated with a dollup of hypo. He consulted a photographer friend for help.
The expression "they went belly up" pretty much describes the condition after he used Kodak Rapid fix to do the job. Poor fish!
 

Anon Ymous

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Thanks. Is my statement of lower capacity true or not? (I do understand that plain hypo is best mixed just prior to using it).

Frankly, I don't know. I considered sodium thiosulfate fixers for some time, but never bothered for a variety of reasons. After all, fixer doesn't cost much, especially if you buy the 5l bottles. Paper costs far more than fixer IMHO.
 

Anscojohn

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I bought a 50 pound drum of sodium thiosulfate, pentahydrated, some time ago. I keep things simple with my prints by using Kodak F-24. I use a hardening rapid fix for my negs. Hypo is cheap, as has been stated.
 

Robert Hall

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Thomas,

Plain Hypo may have a little less capacity than the rapid fixers due to the lack of buffering agents. The biggest problem with Hypo of any kind is developer carry over. Using a decent stop bath will help longevity as well as add consistency to your process. I have used hypo (sodium thiosulfate) andl as amonium thiosulphate for a number of years and have never seen staining either way as I wash before I tone.

Ansel liked the Hypo bath and was the one or one of those who thought it would keep the selenium from staining. I think a good wash works as well as anything from keeping stains off the prints, well, that and not fat fingering the prints themselves.

I can buy Hypo at the local chem shop who caters to water treatment plants. As of yet it costs about the same as Ilford's rapid fix and takes longer to fix so I stick with the Ilford.

I hope that offers some help.

Cheers
 

Denis R

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***** You want confusion: how about the guy who read that the tap water for his fish tank could be de-chlorinated with a dollup of hypo. He consulted a photographer friend for help.
The expression "they went belly up" pretty much describes the condition after he used Kodak Rapid fix to do the job. Poor fish!

who else LOL when they read this?
 
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