Hydroquinone a DEA listed chemical? I don't think so!

[Photo Engineer]

We are apparently living in a society where a typographical error has the potential to inconvenience us all or even hurt us.

Hydroquinone is NOT Hydrocodone!

PE

 

[JohnMeadows]

We are apparently living in a society where a typographical error has the potential to inconvenience us all or even hurt us.

Hydroquinone is NOT Hydrocodone!

PE

It's like people whose names are on a no-fly list by accident; all part of the same mentality

 

[nhemann]

Funny you should mention about the glassware and meth labs - I was reading somewhere that Anchor-Hocking changed the formulation of Pyrex for home grade measuring cups and such so that it would not withstand rapid temperature changes nearly as well as the old formula did - apparently meth making involves a lot of quenching liquids and such (i have no idea about the details. lol)

 

[craig.knapp1]

remember the 1970s?

I am 50 now, worked in a Camera Store/Studio in Southwest Michigan in the 70s-80s.

Does not anyone here remember the supposed government spraying of farmers fields with Paraquat? At that time I heard on the radio that film developers such as Dektol and D-76 contained Hydroquinone, which could be used somehow to "detect" the presence of Paraquat, thus letting the "hippies" know if their pot had been contaminated. I remember the quote "check your pot for Paraquat".

We actually had a few people come in to the store that were not regular customers, only buying powdered developer for a week or two.

Craig Knapp
Shooting with
Franka Rolfix 6x9 (with Series VI filters)
Franka Solida IIIE (by Certo 6)
Kodak Retina IIIc with 3 Schneider Lenses (body repaired recently CLAd in Aukland Newzland)
Bronica ETR-S System
Omega 45D 4x5 system
Complete Wet Darkroom with Beseler 45MCRX and 23CII

 

[desertrat]

Funny you should mention about the glassware and meth labs - I was reading somewhere that Anchor-Hocking changed the formulation of Pyrex for home grade measuring cups and such so that it would not withstand rapid temperature changes nearly as well as the old formula did - apparently meth making involves a lot of quenching liquids and such (i have no idea about the details. lol)

Pyrex was made by Dow Corning, but Anchor Hocking made a similar product. Corning did cheapen the formula of Pyrex kitchenware (not labware), but I think the above stated reason comes from drug addled conspiracy theories.

Corning changed the formula because common soda lime glass is cheaper to make than borosilicate glass, and the cheapened casserole dishes didn't explode in people's ovens...most of the time.

 

[ic-racer]

I think in this case adding hydroquinone to the list was a typographical error,

No, hydroquinone 4% cream is a prescription drug.

 

[Ian Grant]

Hydroqinone is subject to some transport bans and that's NOT due to a TYPO, it might be mis-guied but thats another issue.

Ian

 

[ntenny]

Hydroqinone is subject to some transport bans and that's NOT due to a TYPO, it might be mis-guied but thats another issue.

Yeah, but the DEA list found by desertrat was a list of drugs similar to opium: "morphine, codeine, heroin, methadone, hydroquinone, fentanyl, and oxycodone." I think it's safe to say hydroquinone is a typo in that list!

There may be transport issues, but this wasn't a transport issue, it was a "must fill out DEA paperwork to purchase" situation. I'm not sure if there's a single unified "all substances that require a DEA form" list, but as desertrat already noted, the usual suspects---DEA Lists I and II and their "special concern" precursors list---don't contain it, and there doesn't seem to be any clear reason why they should.

I found one suggestion that catechols generally can be used to make safrole, which is a List I precursor---I gather it's used for various M-drugs---but the catechols themselves don't seem to be on any of the lists. There are copies at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEA_list_of_chemicals

-NT

 

[DREW WILEY]

It's not just known narcotics etc which are the issue. It is any chemical used in the home brew of illegal
substances. For example, ordinary sulfuric acid might need to be listed. Of course, this might require hazmat shpg due to its corrosive nature, but what the DEA if concerned with is its use in drug labs, and
how druggies tend to spread small purchases of such things over a wide number of suppliers to avoid
suspicion. Look at cold pills and meth, or diesel oil and fertilizer by bomb-makers. Just be glad that someone is looking out for you, or trying to. Some of those heavy metals have turned up as deadly additives in things like "ecstasy". I don't know about hydroquinone per se, but it very well could be used
in some shady process, though its something I've never personally been asked to sign for.

 

[brucemuir]

Just be glad that someone is looking out for you, or trying to.

not to start anything but wth

LOL

 

[Roger Cole]

not to start anything but wth

LOL

You said it. 10 grillion dollars spent on trying to stop people from doing what they want to do with the result of creating a massive criminal underground with attendant crime that can then be blamed on the drugs rather than the prohibition thus justifying a budget increase of another few grillion dollars while stopping absolutely no one who wants to use drugs from doing so anyway. The inmates are in charge of the asylum.

 

[desertrat]

Yeah, but the DEA list found by desertrat was a list of drugs similar to opium: "morphine, codeine, heroin, methadone, hydroquinone, fentanyl, and oxycodone." I think it's safe to say hydroquinone is a typo in that list!

There may be transport issues, but this wasn't a transport issue, it was a "must fill out DEA paperwork to purchase" situation. I'm not sure if there's a single unified "all substances that require a DEA form" list, but as desertrat already noted, the usual suspects---DEA Lists I and II and their "special concern" precursors list---don't contain it, and there doesn't seem to be any clear reason why they should.

I found one suggestion that catechols generally can be used to make safrole, which is a List I precursor---I gather it's used for various M-drugs---but the catechols themselves don't seem to be on any of the lists. There are copies at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEA_list_of_chemicals

-NT

I've been doing some research on this. The DEA requires sales of certain chems to be reported. Any quantity of a list I chemical must be reported, and large or suspicious orders of list II chemicals must be reported. The rules for the other watched chemicals are probably the same as for list II chemicals. The quantity thresholds for list II chemicals are listed in guidelines. Also, any quantity of a list II chemical should be reported if the buyer is acting 'suspiciously'.

The DEA does not have a specified form for reporting these sales as far as I know. Any forms are the creation of the vendor, and they can be as the vendor sees fit. The DEA only requires that records be kept and suspicious sales reported, as far as I know. This is why some vendors require forms and/or picture ID for the sales of certain chemicals, and others simply record the sales and alert the DEA to a suspicious sale.

Since hydroquinone only appeared (as a typo) on an informational handout for opium and its relatives, and did not appear on the lists of watched chemicals, this may not become a big deal. Only time will tell. In the meantime, I ordered some more hydroquinone just in case it becomes hard to get for a while. In the unlikely event it becomes unavailable, the are plenty of other reducing agents. Also, I think prepackaged developers with all the ingredients won't be affected. If the worst happened, paper can be developed by Rodinal somewhat more concentrated than for film. It can be developed by PC mixtures. It can be developed by some film developers with a big helping of sodium carbonate added. There are lots of alternatives.

 

[ntenny]

If (*if*) hydroquinone is on a watchlist as a precursor, it apparently would have to be because it can be used to produce safrole (which in turn is used to produce MDMA---does anyone really synthesize MDMA in the States? I thought it was all imported from Israel). It seems like that wouldn't make a lot of sense; there are lots of other things that can be used to produce safrole (the whole catechol family, sassafras bark, something called benzodioxole, and who knows what else) and hydroquinone seems like a weird one to pick on. Though the DEA may have just gotten a wild hair about a particular random second-order precursor, my money is still on it being a mistake.

There are, of course, lots of alternatives if hydroquinone becomes difficult to get. Paper developers using alternatives to hydroquinone seem to be scarcer than film ones, but I don't know if this is for fundamental reasons or just because that's where the experiments happen to have been done.

-NT

 

[DREW WILEY]

Well, I know the inside story rather well. Basically, DEA, Homeland Security, and the FBI are now all interlinked in terms of compliance and data, licensing, and controlled substance monitoring. It's part of the bigger picture. And there are valid reasons for the specifics if you have some valid connection to pharmacology. But in this case, I'd bet that hydroquinone getting listed is simply a fluke. I've made several puchases of it recently and never had an issue. And I've never been asked for a photo ID by any
supplier. We're not talking about morphine here but just the statistical possibility of a rogue shopper.
I think the folks at Formulary are pretty bright and would get suspicious of any strange request. Prior
to that I got chem locally at Bryant, where the owners were pHD's and got the bulk of the business from
hospitals and biotech research... photo chem was a sideline. They were wonderful folks and would chat,
and you'd be amazed at what some chemicals are used in. Something as innocuous as sodium sulfite,
which is used on fastfood salads everywhere, will kill people allergic to it. What if it turns up unlisted in
something random? Just an example. And many people are allegric to sulfite. But there are reasons for rules.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I doubt if Saffrole could be made from HQ due to the fact that the two oxygens in Safrrole ar Ortho, but in HQ they are Para! Tough to get around that. As for Sassafras, I have been drinking Sassafras tea and chewing the leaf for years, and I love Basil. So far my liver is OK! We have a Sassafras tree in the front yard and it is putting out saplings everywhere. They make a good source of cuttings.

Oh, I also love Root Beer, even the "home made" variety.

PE

 

[ntenny]

and I love Basil. So far my liver is OK!

*Basil* is bad for you now? Wow, I plan to forget that piece of information immediately. If anyone ever finds out that tomatoes are dangerous, please don't tell me.

I stand corrected about the putative synthesis of safrole from HQ. Some of the (intentionally vague) online sources seemed to be suggesting that it could be done, but if that doesn't work I have absolutely no idea what reason our friends at the DEA would have for caring about the stuff.

-NT

 

[DREW WILEY]

Basil is pretty rough on the stomach, especially mixed with tomato, pesto, etc... in fact, I didn't sleep very well last nite for that very reason. Should've taken an antiacid pill first or eaten dinner earlier. But
despite the complications of the above ingredients, I've never found a use for them in the darkroom. I
have heard of tomato ketchup splatter images being "shrined" for resembling this or that.

 

[Roger Cole]

I am NOT giving up my favorite Thai restaurant nor the dishes with basil in them.

Don't have a problem with the stomach either. Never heard it was bad for the liver and hope that's not true.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Basil contains Safrole.

You may want to look Safrole up on Wikipedia, as it gives you all of the spices it is found in.

BTW, I also use File Gumbo.

PE

 

[ntenny]

But
despite the complications of the above ingredients, I've never found a use for them in the darkroom.

Some aromatic herbs (rosemary, mint, sage) are reported to work as developers. I don't know if anyone has tried basil, though. There was an "Edible Film Developers" thread a while ago that went way over my head, but I think PE suggested that the terpenes in various herbs might be usable developing agents.

-NT

 

[DREW WILEY]

Some young fellow recently had a show in SF in which he devised an interesting contact print technique onto vegetable matter requiring no developer whatsoever. But back to proscribed chems ... a handful of
us sometimes use uranyl nitrate as a color dye mordant. The colloquial term for this is "yellowcake", being the ore from which it is derived. Most of you probably remember when Sadaam Hussein was accused of importing yellowcake from Nigeria. My own purchases of the chemical at 100g at a time aren't enough to cook a flea or even warrant a hazmat label during shipping. But if you imported seven
or eight shiploads of the stuff you might be able to make a dirty bomb. This fact caused some consternation for a fellow in a different country, when their equivalent of the DEA got all worked up just over the terminology, to the exclusion of the practical quantities in question.

 

[Hexavalent]

Nutmeg/mace are contain myristicin and elemicin, both being very 'useful' precursors for MMDA-type synthesis. DEA forms required at the supermarket next?

 

[2F/2F]

That is interesting. I chow down home-made caprese salad regularly (often a big one for an entire meal), and never had any stomach problems. In fact, it leaves me feeling great, which is why I eat it so much. I did not know it was a problem for some people.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Nutmeg is hallucinogenic and can cause death in high enough quantities.

PE

 

[mhcfires]

Does anyone remember "Mellow Yellow"? Some screwball pot-head thought that you could take the stringy fibrous stuff from the banana peel and dry it and smoke it. Eat the banana for nourishment and smoke the peel to get high.