Hydrogen Peroxide and colour material questions..

[Athiril]

Figure may as well post a thread instead of hassling someone with pm's again.

I wanted to ask something quickly in response to a thread starting hydrogren peroxide will give black slides in a colour reversal process.. is it because it forms colour through silver after the fact?

ie: If you take a colour film, develop it, and fix it, then place it in colour developer with hydrogen peroxide added, colour will continue to form through the silver as a mask upon the rate it forms dye?


I've also seen mentioned use of 3% hydrogen peroxide (supermarket stuff) for added contrast.. and I was wondering if people typically use a whole bottle/couple hundren ml or just a few ml for a noticeable increase in contrast in RA-4 or C-41?

My google-fu doesn't find any results of how much people are actually using to get a result.

 

[David Grenet]

I'm yet to try it, but I believe it is a form of calalytic imaging whereby the peroxide serves as a catalyst to form dyes in the presence of silver. So yes, if you BW process a sheet of colour paper and then put it into colour dev + H2O2 it will form dye where there is silver (and continue to do so until you remove the paper or reach Dmax).

(there was a url link here which no longer exists) thread may be of use - PE suggests 10mL/L for boosting contrast...

Also usable (probably more suitable but harder to find and expensive) is Cobalt Hexammine Chloride a.k.a Hexamminecobalt(III) Chloride (from memory).

Hopefully there won't be too much for PE to correct here

Good to see someone else from this part of the world who likes to experiment with colour processes (I just wish I had more time and space for it!)

 

[Athiril]

Ah thank you very much for that thread I wish I had more time and space too... the only thing I have a large quantity of flexicolor (200l of working developer worth), RA-4 and E-6 CD and CD-2 powder


I've got 800 ft of 14 year old Vision1 500T in 35mm I've been bulk loading.. experimenting with ways to increase contrast to get a good separation of dmin and dmax and make it good for scanning.. that might help.. and some 19 year old 7245 50D which I plan on shooting on my K3 and developing myself.

That, and I want to try boosting the colour formation from Rodinal.

 

[David Grenet]

You may like this thread (photo.net) as well where PE discusses using this process on film... You've got me interested again now too - I need to get some hydrogen peroxide!

 

[Athiril]

Cheers, I'll check it, its like $4 for 3% 200ml at the supermarket, or like $20-$30 last I checked on ebay for 40-50% 500ml

"As an afterthought, here is a true maximization process that produces color negs with a push of 400 to 1200 or higher. "

That's interesting.. I was getting very good pushes with 1+25 rodinal as a first dev with salt added, fixed, bleach and re-developed without peroxide.. I wonder how that'd look with peroxide with even more underexposure for a pushing test.


Anyway I just shot a roll of Ektacolor 160..loading it in Rodinal 1+100 for an hour with some peroxide.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The concentrate is very dangerous so be careful.

Everywhere there is silver metal, dye will form in the presence of color developer + peroxide, so thus in an E6 film where all silver is developed, dye forms everywhere.

PE

 

[Worker 11811]

The concentrate is very dangerous so be careful.

Yes, concentrated hydrogen peroxide can be used as rocket fuel. Can't it?

 

[Domin]

That sounds really interesting.

What is the amount of hydrogen peroxide needed?

Does Cobalt Hexammine Chloride has some significant advantage over peroxide?

 

[Photo Engineer]

For peroxide, use 10 ml of 3% per liter of developer.

For CoHex use 5 g/liter of developer.

Neither has any advantage over the other except CoHex is harder to get and more expensive. It is also a crystalline solid which will last for years dry.

PE

 

[Kirk Keyes]

You can store hydrogen peroxide in a refrigerator to get more life out of it. It's corrosive and will burn your skin when at about 10% and higher.

 

[JSebrof]

"Neither has any advantage over the other except CoHex is harder to get and more expensive. It is also a crystalline solid which will last for years dry."

You've said that the Hydrogen Peroxide will kill the developer rather quickly, making each use a one-shot deal. Would this be true with the CoHex as well?

 

[Athiril]

When I accidentally put the hydrogen peroxide in my colour developer (CD-2 based) before the base (Was using NaOH), it turned pink quite quickly.. putting in the base turned it back to clear... odd... and the oxidation colour is more of an orange hmm.

I've been using NaOH and Benzotriazole in my colour developer tests instead of carbonate and bromide... and have found out why using benzotriazole is so bad in a colour developer.. been using it in first developers for colour for a while with amazing results.. that and the fact its so cheap and you need to use so little.. oh well back to bromide.

 

[Photo Engineer]

"Neither has any advantage over the other except CoHex is harder to get and more expensive. It is also a crystalline solid which will last for years dry."

You've said that the Hydrogen Peroxide will kill the developer rather quickly, making each use a one-shot deal. Would this be true with the CoHex as well?

It is true of both, and the other catalytic agents that work as well. The developer goes bad quickly.

PE

 

[Vovanuhc]

Hello everyone, I would like to learn more about the development process using hydrogen peroxide, or perhaps you could direct me to a thread where this is discussed in more detail or has been discussed—how to develop color negative film with hydrogen peroxide. I remember reading somewhere (I can't recall exactly where) that hydrogen peroxide provides a greater dye output compared to the standard C-41 process. Or perhaps there was some confusion, and it was mentioned that you need to first develop in black and white, then fix, then bleach, then expose to light, and then develop in a color developer with the addition of hydrogen peroxide, followed by bleaching and fixing again, resulting in a very good outcome. I’m thinking of trying it, but I don’t know where to start.

 

[koraks]

Or perhaps there was some confusion, and it was mentioned that you need to first develop in black and white, then fix, then bleach, then expose to light, and then develop in a color developer with the addition of hydrogen peroxide, followed by bleaching and fixing again, resulting in a very good outcome.

That's what's outlined in post #2. You wouldn't have to expose to light, though, but given that you'll do that part of the process in normal room light anyway, it's moot.

What are you trying to achieve?

 

[Vovanuhc]

That's what's outlined in post #2. You wouldn't have to expose to light, though, but given that you'll do that part of the process in normal room light anyway, it's moot.

What are you trying to achieve?

Yes, that's correct: first, black-and-white development, then fixation, then bleaching, followed by development in a developer with the addition of hydrogen peroxide, and then bleaching again, fixing, and final washing. Or are there other methods?

 

[koraks]

Again, what are you trying to do here?

 

[Vovanuhc]

Again, what are you trying to do here?

I want to understand if this method is correct or if there are other methods, and whether it's true that hydrogen peroxide develops colors more intensely than in the standard C-41 process.

 

[koraks]

Hydrogen peroxide does not develop colors as all, strictly speaking.

 

[Vovanuhc]

Hydrogen peroxide does not develop colors as all, strictly speaking.

Yes, I know that it doesn't develop on its own, but when added to the color developer as described above, oxidation occurs at a maximum level, resulting in highly saturated colors. Or am I misunderstanding something? There are a couple of threads where this is described, but they provide links to APUG, which no longer exists, so the links are inactive.

 

[halfaman]

I used hydrogen peroxide added to RA4 CD and it increases contrast/saturation indeed. It works well, it is easy to use and you get more or less repeteable results (not totally), but there are two things to take into account. First, it "kills" the developer as said in a previous post, so it should be added just before use and the developer discarded after use. Second point is that it alters the color balance, I always needed to adjust the filtration when I used it. Because of the latter I would have concerns about adding hydrogen peroxide to C41 CD.

 

[Vovanuhc]

I used hydrogen peroxide added to RA4 CD and it increases contrast/saturation indeed. It works well, it is easy to use and you get more or less repeteable results (not totally), but there are two things to take into account. First, it "kills" the developer as said in a previous post, so it should be added just before use and the developer discarded after use. Second point is that it alters the color balance, I always needed to adjust the filtration when I used it. Because of the latter I would have concerns about adding hydrogen peroxide to C41 CD.

As I read on the internet, there is a process for developing color negative films: first, black-and-white development, then color development with the addition of hydrogen peroxide, followed by the usual stop, bleaching, and fixing. Supposedly, the result should be very interesting, but I can't figure out which option is correct:

1. Black-and-white development → Fixing → Bleaching → Color development with hydrogen peroxide → Stop → Bleaching → Fixing → Final wash.
2. Or is it correct to do: Black-and-white development → Color development with hydrogen peroxide → Stop → Bleaching → Fixing → Final wash.

I just can't figure it out. I'm planning to conduct some experiments, but I read about this a long time ago and now I remember that such a strategy exists, but I can't find the exact description of what to do step by step. I found this thread and decided to revive it—maybe someone remembers something.

 

[halfaman]

1. Black-and-white development → Fixing → Bleaching → Color development with hydrogen peroxide → Stop → Bleaching → Fixing → Final wash.
2. Or is it correct to do: Black-and-white development → Color development with hydrogen peroxide → Stop → Bleaching → Fixing → Final wash.

Neither makes any sense to me. Or perhaps I am just tired...

The intial question of this thread was adding hydrogen peroxide to E-6 CD to get a kind of black and white slide from a color film. But the process sequence is the standard: FD+reversal+CD+Bleach+Fix

 

[Vovanuhc]

Neither makes any sense to me. Or perhaps I am just tired...

The intial question of this thread was adding hydrogen peroxide to E-6 CD to get a kind of black and white slide from a color film. But the process sequence is the standard: FD+reversal+CD+Bleach+Fix

Oh, that's certainly interesting, but there's no point in converting color film to black and white because it's completely unnecessary. However, getting interesting results in color is much more exciting. That's why the question about hydrogen peroxide came up—to achieve color saturation with detailed and well-developed images overall.

 

[koraks]

to achieve color saturation with detailed and well-developed images overall.

Instead of peroxide, I'd suggest exploring intensification of the dye image through (repeated) redevelopment.