HybridPhoto.com (sister site) initial site launch invitation

[David A. Goldfarb]

I'm a bit confused. It seems to me that as long as this is an analog photography community that makes use of a website with galleries, there will be digital image files involved. Do discussions about preparing files for the galleries on this website have to take place on another website?

This question comes up from time to time.

The APUG online galleries are peripheral to the purpose of the site. If there is a little practical discussion about how to scan work for the web, that's okay, as long as it doesn't turn into extended general discussion about digital processes or digital printing.

The main activities on APUG are the discussion forums. While the online galleries serve some useful functions on APUG, the real APUG gallieries are the print exchanges, postcard exchange, Traveling Portfolios, local APUG gatherings, and the APUG Conference.

 

[removed account4]

way to go sean!
looks great

--john

 

[Digidurst]

thanks sean for getting this up and running.

there are a lot of knowledgeable folks here on apug who also have very valuable information that hybird issues that can't be found elsewhere.
I say that , as i have been researching various sites , asking a few questions here and there and am still waiting for answers.

So, there are a lot of sites with digital information, and several with alternative processes but combining the two with really knowledgeable people who one can trust to know what they are doing hopefully will be found at hybrid.

you already have my registration and support.
For both sites.

You said it, Ann!

Sean, thank you so much for thinking of this - it is brilliant!

 

[michaelsalomon]

Just signed up! Thanks Sean.

 

[copake_ham]

What is "Hybrid"?

I don't want to start a new thread.

In all frankness, I am confused by what is meaning of the term "hybrid".

I shoot film and have it developed (one of these days I'll finally learn how to do it myself). As a backup storage of my negatives (or slides, as the case may be) I scan these into images and put them both on a DVD and also to a separate external hard drive.

Now, clearly the scanned images are "digital" but at this point I don't do much of anything else with them except occassional upload some to the Gallery or into a thread. Then I use PS, although almost exclusively to crop and re-size to meet the file upload size limits.

So, at this stage, am I a "Hybrid Photographer"?

Or, more generally, when does someone "cross the line" into hybrid land?

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

If it involves a computer and involves traditional materials to go from film to print, it's hybrid. It's not that complicated.

 

[MattKing]

If it involves a computer and involves traditional materials to go from film to print, it's hybrid. It's not that complicated.

David:

That begs the question - if it only involves a computer to go to the internet, is it hybrid?

I have no desire to print digitally, but I do like to post to the galleries here, and from time to time share pictures with friends via e-mail. Others here have websites they use to share their information and/or sell their work.

One hour photo prints aside, if I do a print, it will be on traditional materials. It is the other uses of the computer that permit other means of delivering the image that I wonder about here.

If I am looking for help on these issues, I'd rather get it from people who are film (or alternative material) photographers first, and experienced with scanning and uploading issues second. If the hybrid site remains strongly film/alternate material based, it will no doubt be fine. If it becomes more of a digitally oriented site, with film/alternate materials as an afterthought, I would prefer to ask my questions here.

I've registered there, and hope for the best.

Please take these as my thoughts, impressions and concerns, not expressions of discontent.

Matt

 

[copake_ham]

If it involves a computer and involves traditional materials to go from film to print, it's hybrid. It's not that complicated.

But David, there is already a thread on the Hybrid site discussing digital image capture. So where then is the "traditional" side of the hybrid equation?

I would have thought that the site would be limited to film for "image capture" (I really don't like that term for film photog) with subsequent digital processes. But as the thread I mentioned suggests, there is every reason to expect that this new site will be just another digital photo forum and not one for "hybrid" photogs.

 

[jimcollum]

I'd fit into that catagory. Most of my capture is digital, with almost all of my output being analog. I shoot film as well, but that forum gives a more relaxed environment for me to discuss some of the issues surrounding the workflow.

I don't see it becoming another 'just' digital forum, since most of those are strictly digital capture to digital output, with nothing 'anlalog' or 'traditional' in between.

jim

But David, there is already a thread on the Hybrid site discussing digital image capture. So where then is the "traditional" side of the hybrid equation?

I would have thought that the site would be limited to film for "image capture" (I really don't like that term for film photog) with subsequent digital processes. But as the thread I mentioned suggests, there is every reason to expect that this new site will be just another digital photo forum and not one for "hybrid" photogs.

 

[michaelsalomon]

ham - then dont visit the site.

 

[ann]

there is a big difference between the need to scan a negative or a print to post in the gallery here on apug and wanting to discuss various means to capture and recreate that image in a variety of methods that are not seen as traditional.

I think those of us who fall into the classification of the above have not found another site that covers that /those methods.

This is not just going to be another digital site, and if it does, i would be disappointed, but would just disengage myself. Those of us who are interested in being involved are looking forward to sharing experencies and techniques that aren't discuss, nor belong on an analog only site.

If you need more confirmation just take a look at the few images that have been posted in the gallery since yesterday. None that i saw, except for Robert Hall showing us all he can take a color picture, would fall into an example of a pure digital image that would be found on a dozen or more digtal sites.

 

[ann]

ps. smiles to you robert

 

[jstraw]

This question comes up from time to time.

The APUG online galleries are peripheral to the purpose of the site. If there is a little practical discussion about how to scan work for the web, that's okay, as long as it doesn't turn into extended general discussion about digital processes or digital printing.

The main activities on APUG are the discussion forums. While the online galleries serve some useful functions on APUG, the real APUG gallieries are the print exchanges, postcard exchange, Traveling Portfolios, local APUG gatherings, and the APUG Conference.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm glad scanning for the galleries here is not a forbidden topic!

 

[Eric Rose]

The APUG online galleries are peripheral to the purpose of the site.

The main activities on APUG are the discussion forums. While the online galleries serve some useful functions on APUG, the real APUG gallieries are the print exchanges, postcard exchange, Traveling Portfolios, local APUG gatherings, and the APUG Conference.

I tend to disagree with you David, at least for me. For me the galleries are the main thing. I am a doer rather than a talker. I do however enjoy the forums, the wealth of information is staggering, but the first thing I do when I sign on is go to the galleries to see what has been shared.

I wish I had more time to participate in some of the other exchanges you talked about but this is just not in the cards.

 

[wfe]

Well done as usual Sean. I'll be spending time on both.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Will S]

But David, there is already a thread on the Hybrid site discussing digital image capture. So where then is the "traditional" side of the hybrid equation?

Digital capture with output to transparency material then contact printed would be a likely scenario I think.

Best,

Wil

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Obviously, since this is a website, if people want to use the galleries to show what they are doing, they are going to need to digitize the work somehow, but the emphasis in the APUG galleries is reproducing the analog work. If it starts as a transparency, then try to match the transparency. If the emphasis is on the print, then try to show something that looks as much like the print as you can with the tools you have. For the purpose of posting to the APUG galleries, there hasn't been a problem in the past with discussion of basic scanning issues.

However, if you want to get more involved than that--discussions of what scanner to buy, detailed discussions of software tools, etc.--that's been Gray Area material, and now it will be material for HybridPhoto.com, rather than APUG.

As far as what HybridPhoto.com will be, that's up to Sean and JD Callow. I'm not a moderator on that site, but I'll be following it with interest to see what happens. So far, it looks like it's getting started off on the right foot. Digital capture is relevant for output of digital negs for printing on traditional materials. I have a kallitype print from the APUG alt-process exchange that started out as a digital file. That's exactly what HybridPhoto.com should be about, in my opinion.

 

[Sean]

I see one main reason the hybrid site will not turn into "just another digi site" and that is 100% digital work flow is out of scope and not permitted. The "digi" sites are mainly digi capture to digi output and they draw a certain crowd for that which I can't see using the hybrid site. Users of the hybrid site have the power to report any activity that is going down the wrong path and we can moderate it if needed.

 

[rst]

Ha, that would have been THE site I ever searched a few months ago. Too bad I am back to pure traditional photography with the only digital tool is a little java program which helps me to do the inversions at the right time when developing my films.

But anyway well done.

Ruediger

 

[Jim Chinn]

I sigined up because I want to explore digital color printing from 35mm and MF negs and tranys. Digital is the simplest, most cost effective way for me to do color the way I would like. While I will continue to shoot and print B&W traditionally, I need current information about scanners, profiles (heck, I don't even know what a profile is) inksets etc.

Also my wife would like do more photography, but she only likes color and has no interest in the darkroom. The only way to stave off having to buy her a 10MP prosumer DSLR is to get her wanting to scan film and make digital prints.

 

[buze]

I don't understand... To post on APUG (where there "analog" always makes me cringes, but then I'm a DSP engineer) you need a computer.

So is APUG going to ban any posting of images ? because it is /clearly/ to me a "hybrid" thing, and should therefore be deleted. Before, it could be "moved" to the "gray area" potentialy... but now with the strict(er) separation there is not even room for this. So, is posting images (examples, request for assistance, "find the leak" etc) going to be banned ?

What about "avatar" images, now that's a pretty clear breach of the "hybrid" rules in many many cases, some people have some of their images right there, in the avatar, in their digital form ! In plain breach of the rules! Ban ?

Seriously, I think the "gray area" was nice as it was. If the new site was directly linked to APUG forums it'd be OK (search, registration..), but quite frankly if I want to discuss digital images, there are about a bazillion other forums to do so already.

I think segregating the subjects is bad for both. Digital people mostly don't realize (or forgot) the things film could give them in their workflow, and "analog" (cringe) people certainly don't realize when they would get with some "digital" in their workflow. "hybrid" is the best of both worlds.

 

[bill schwab]

But David, there is already a thread on the Hybrid site discussing digital image capture. So where then is the "traditional" side of the hybrid equation?

George,

Many people use a digital means of capturing an image to then create negatives for more traditional or alternative printing processes.

B.

 

[copake_ham]

George,

Many people use a digital means of capturing an image to then create negatives for more traditional or alternative printing processes.

B.

Bill,

First of all, good luck to your Tigers. Although we do have a good friend who is a diehard Cards fan - so we'll tell him "Good luck to your Cards".

I understand this is one of the possible "hybrid" scenarios.

The other, which I am more likely to be interested in, is the one JChinn spoke of - i.e. shooting film, then scanning and using increasingly sophisticated printer technology for output.

But I'm enough of a geezer now to have experienced a lot of instances of "incrementalism" of ideas.

Yes the "hybrid" site starts off with this kind of "good intention". I like traditional "image capture" but digital production. You like digital image capture, but traditional processing etc. ect.

So, in the end, if it survives at all, it will become a digi site.

Why?

Because people will have different, and usually incompatible, definitions of what is "hybrid". And fights will break out and people will go off in a huff etc. etc.

At the end of the day, if there is anyone left on the site, they will be all digi - because they will be the only ones who never disagreed with what any of the others were saying!

I don't disagree that it's nice to create the Hybrid site - but I really hope that it doesn't mean that things like the new "thread ban" tool will be used to "block" out people if here on APUG they "stray" from the "orthodoxy" that seems to be ascendent.

 

[Sean]

Bill,

First of all, good luck to your Tigers. Although we do have a good friend who is a diehard Cards fan - so we'll tell him "Good luck to your Cards".

I understand this is one of the possible "hybrid" scenarios.

The other, which I am more likely to be interested in, is the one JChinn spoke of - i.e. shooting film, then scanning and using increasingly sophisticated printer technology for output.

But I'm enough of a geezer now to have experienced a lot of instances of "incrementalism" of ideas.

Yes the "hybrid" site starts off with this kind of "good intention". I like traditional "image capture" but digital production. You like digital image capture, but traditional processing etc. ect.

So, in the end, if it survives at all, it will become a digi site.

Why?

Because people will have different, and usually incompatible, definitions of what is "hybrid". And fights will break out and people will go off in a huff etc. etc.

At the end of the day, if there is anyone left on the site, they will be all digi - because they will be the only ones who never disagreed with what any of the others were saying!

I don't disagree that it's nice to create the Hybrid site - but I really hope that it doesn't mean that things like the new "thread ban" tool will be used to "block" out people if here on APUG they "stray" from the "orthodoxy" that seems to be ascendent.

Why would an "all digi" person use the hybrid site if 100% digital work flow is not permitted? That will be in the core of the mission statement. If I were a total digital user hybridphoto.com would be the last site I'd go to when so many sites are all digital..

 

[Sean]

I don't understand... To post on APUG (where there "analog" always makes me cringes, but then I'm a DSP engineer) you need a computer.

So is APUG going to ban any posting of images ? because it is /clearly/ to me a "hybrid" thing, and should therefore be deleted. Before, it could be "moved" to the "gray area" potentialy... but now with the strict(er) separation there is not even room for this. So, is posting images (examples, request for assistance, "find the leak" etc) going to be banned ?

Images posted on apug are digital examples of analog work, yes they are digitized but for no other purpose than to display on the internet.

What about "avatar" images, now that's a pretty clear breach of the "hybrid" rules in many many cases, some people have some of their images right there, in the avatar, in their digital form ! In plain breach of the rules! Ban ?

avatars are just forum graphics, there are no rules on what they can be as long as they are not offensive..

Seriously, I think the "gray area" was nice as it was. If the new site was directly linked to APUG forums it'd be OK (search, registration..), but quite frankly if I want to discuss digital images, there are about a bazillion other forums to do so already.

True, but those who requested the hybrid site want to have those discussions with those they have met here.

I think segregating the subjects is bad for both. Digital people mostly don't realize (or forgot) the things film could give them in their workflow, and "analog" (cringe) people certainly don't realize when they would get with some "digital" in their workflow. "hybrid" is the best of both worlds.

hybrid is out of scope for this site: "APUG.ORG is an international community of like minded individuals devoted to traditional (non-digital) photographic processes."