How's AdoXTOL coming along, Team Adox?

[m00dawg]

Heya Adox (ADOX?)!

Kodak seems to have their head in the sand as far as I can tell over their current XTOL debacle. Or is at least refusing to provide ANY updates and I'm sure lots of folks (myself included) are asking. When ya'll teased working on a similar XTOL solution (I think it was one of Lina's videos?), I got excited! And I'm increasingly excited as I'm starting to loose hope in being able to get any more of Kodak's own stuff anytime soon. For the interim I will be switching to some (not Kodak) D76 but I REALLY like XTOL for several reasons (replenishment among the top reasons as it's a great way to manage sheet film dev).

I expect that any XTOL-like dev will require re-running some film tests so I expect I'll have to make, and season, a new batch and so wanted to see where ya'll were at in this process before considering other alternatives? I love Adox products and love supporting what you do so thought this would be a great way to support the cause apart from buying film (which of course I do as well!)

 

[urnem57]

I’m in. Kodak has completely let me down after 50 years of consistency. All of The Adox Rodinal that I have ever used has been great. You have my trust (and business) An Xtol alternative would be welcomed. Although there isn’t a bottle of Rodinal to be found in my area because of COVID shipping delays.

 

[Team ADOX]

Heya Adox (ADOX?)!

Kodak seems to have their head in the sand as far as I can tell over their current XTOL debacle. Or is at least refusing to provide ANY updates and I'm sure lots of folks (myself included) are asking. When ya'll teased working on a similar XTOL solution (I think it was one of Lina's videos?), I got excited! And I'm increasingly excited as I'm starting to loose hope in being able to get any more of Kodak's own stuff anytime soon. For the interim I will be switching to some (not Kodak) D76 but I REALLY like XTOL for several reasons (replenishment among the top reasons as it's a great way to manage sheet film dev).

I expect that any XTOL-like dev will require re-running some film tests so I expect I'll have to make, and season, a new batch and so wanted to see where ya'll were at in this process before considering other alternatives? I love Adox products and love supporting what you do so thought this would be a great way to support the cause apart from buying film (which of course I do as well!)

We are working very hard on it. And we've made significant progress recently. Our aim is to develop an even improved product, with several advantages compared to the orginal. And we are very confident to succeed.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE ANALOG.

 

[m00dawg]

That is wonderful news! I am very much looking forward to it!

 

[m00dawg]

I might add (sorry for the double reply), I'd be happy to test it or be an early adopter! I'm in the US and with a less precise film testing setup (just my enlarger, some step wedges and an X-Rite 301 densitometer) but nonetheless, if you're planning for any sort of pre-order or pre-sale, count me in!

I assume (I hope) a replenishment regimen will be among the options? I like XTOL for a lot of reasons, but that's perhaps my favorite feature since it's so simple to do with XTOL and gives me some benefits for my developing process (not having to worry about using extra chemistry to cover sheet films, for instance; and I like replenishment can be a sort of mistakes buffer )

 

[grain elevator]

Very cool! I'm interested if it will be better in any way (or cheaper) than Fomadon Excel. My guess for the promised improvement over Xtol is the longevity department..?

 

[MattKing]

+1 if it self replenishes!

 

[m00dawg]

Excel was my next thought. There's LegacyPro too but I was a bit worried about how long the "Legacy" would be My replenished XTOL is over 2 years old, and it's perfect! So I want whatever I replace it with to be around for the long haul.

Given some of the discussions about the XTOL situation here, it sounds like Excel might not be a simple drop-in but I think if I remember can work for replenishment. The downside (or maybe it was the LegacyPro stuff) is it falls off faster and the contrast/times are different.

My guess for the promised improvement over Xtol is the longevity department..?

I suspect this is a harder solve, but my goodness that would be amazing! In Lina's video the main thing they were working on was a better contrast curve noting the "new" XTOL is flatter. That's been hard for me to evaluate but I think there's some potential truth to that. For me, I just need something that is consistent and, if there is a problem and a recall, a company will at least keep us in the loop. Adox is generally great about communication so that, at this point, makes whatever they come up with better than Kodak's XTOL heh.

 

[radiant]

I switched from Xtol to Excel and I'm happy with it. Could be a bit cheaper of course, so hope Adox can compete in price. You can develop 7-8 135 films with one bag of Excel and then developing costs for single film is roughly 50 cents. That is nothing..

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Will it replenish, like XTOL?

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Can't wait to see the marketing for this.

Easy to predict:

• "Works like XTOL used to"
• "Consistent"
• "Uses ADOX CAPTURA dust binding technology."

 

[urnem57]

This will be good.

 

[pentaxuser]

The worrying thing or so it seems to me is that for the sake of Kodak, Sal, is that most users( not the users with Kodak in their veins, I admit ) would settle for the first two of your bullet points which are achievable and I have little doubt will be achieved by Adox

pentaxuser

 

[Ernst-Jan]

Oh wow, that's really cool. I haven't tried X-tol because I don't have much faith in it with all de production issues you read about. If there is Adox on the label it must be good

I was thinking about Adotol as name, but that ringed a bell, it appearently exists as paper developer.

Easy to predict:

• "Works like XTOL used to"
• "Consistent"
• "Uses ADOX CAPTURA dust binding technology."

Xtol is a registred trademark so I don't think you can use it in your marketing. But you can ofcourse say "works how the ascorbic acid from Rochester was designed"

 

[toyoboyo]

Looks like there's a placeholder listing on fotoimpex already
https://www.fotoimpex.com/chemistry/adox-xt-developer-to-mix-1000-ml.html

 

[SchwinnParamount]

You'd have to wonder, "Why isn't Kodak Alaris paying attention to the ever-shrinking film developer audience and giving us regular updates to their work on XTOL II"? ... um, so maybe they are? Could it be that product development is proceeding apace without premature marketing announcements that are designed to keep the attention of the less patient of us? Unless current XTOL product is failing to live up to the original product without an "oops, my bad" announcement from Kodak, why get ants in our pants about the next shiny trinket?

 

[toyoboyo]

I thought whatever portion of Kodak that managed Xtol was sold to Sino Promise Holdings

 

[SchwinnParamount]

Perhaps they have. However, the "Sino" Promise holdings [Chinese] company that bought them is as interested in making a buck as anyone else. The Chinese photographic companies have brought us some good stuff lately. Whose to say Sino Promise Holdings won't too?

But yeah, brand loyalty amounts to real value. If it ain't really Kodak, who is it?

 

[MattKing]

I thought whatever portion of Kodak that managed Xtol was sold to Sino Promise Holdings

It was, and the sale completed last November.
Prior to the completion of the sale Sino Promise was the largest distributer in the world of all Kodak branded photographic products, other than the motion picture films and chemicals. They also owned a lot of the manufacturing capacity that Kodak Alaris contracted with for the colour photo-chemicals. With the completion of the sale, Sino Promise now source and distribute the black and white chemicals and colour papers, and manufacture and distribute the colour photo-chemicals.
Eastman Kodak still manufactures the films, and Kodak Alaris markets the still films.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

5L pack for the new Adox developer: https://www.fotoimpex.com/chemistry/adox-xt-developer-to-mix-5000-ml.html?cache=1615021896

 

[Donald Qualls]

5L pack for the new Adox developer: https://www.fotoimpex.com/chemistry/adox-xt-developer-to-mix-5000-ml.html?cache=1615021896

So around 50% higher than the last Xtol I bought -- which is acceptable if it does something (sharpness, speed, working solution life, lower replenishment rate => lower consumption -- or just coming from a company that pays attention to their market) better than Xtol does.

At present, the best candidate for an Xtol replacement (assuming Sino Promise doesn't manage to control their ducks in the near future) is Eco-Pro, which by report not only works exactly like Xtol but self-replenishes successfully at the same rate as Xtol. And is the same or slightly lower price, making it effectively Xtol in a different bag.

 

[Auer]

Looks like there's a placeholder listing on fotoimpex already
https://www.fotoimpex.com/chemistry/adox-xt-developer-to-mix-1000-ml.html

Excellent.
Looking forward to 1 liter packs.

 

[radiant]

Excellent.
Looking forward to 1 liter packs.

1 litre pack is 33% more expensive than Excel

 

[Auer]

1 litre pack is 33% more expensive than Excel

That's ok.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

At present, the best candidate for an Xtol replacement (assuming Sino Promise doesn't manage to control their ducks in the near future) is Eco-Pro, which by report not only works exactly like Xtol but self-replenishes successfully at the same rate as Xtol.

Unfortunately the Eco-Pro products are not available in the UK or Europe; a shame as I think they fill a gap in the market and would sell well.