How'd He Do It?

[flavio81]

I was going to get that book but after reading quite a few reports about binding problems I decided not to. I don't know if the quality has improved in that area more recently or not.

It is a book so big and heavy that no binding will last long. Mine is still OK. It is a fantastic book worth the money, in fact it is the most expensive book I own, costed like buying two or three old film cameras.

 

[BetterSense]

Fine art Printers are sometimes so good that other printers (for example 10-20 years later) are not able to get the same result. I was looking some documentaries about HCB and about Moriyama Daido where on the end printers took a photo of the original print and do the reprint from that, not from original negative.

I have had to do this with my own work! After being unable to replicate what past-me was able to do. Maybe it was the papers I had then, or the lenses, or the drugs...

 

[RobC]

I think it was CB who is quoted as saying "sharpness is bourgeois concept". But I think he was being facetious to hide his inability to hold the camera still in his old age. Maybe that's why he took to painting instead. Nobody ever considers "sharpness" in a painting. Indeed, sfumato is a virtue in paintings. Digital is good for sfumato.

 

[BetterSense]

Super XX was grainy, but it had a longer straight line than any typical current film

I think this is just Internet myth with no basis in reality. I have never seen any data to substantiate this urban legend. Modern films make a straight contrast line and do it to tremendous densities with lower grain, higher speed, and better sharpness than anything available 40 years ago. Why would film get worse?

It remindsme of people who say old sports cars were better, but if you look at the actual specs you find they were slow, didn't turn, and weren't reliable.

 

[ColColt]

My Tarheel friend, is that by chance a Technics turntable in your avatar...curious?

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks, cliveh and BillBurk for your explanations

pentaxuser

 

[BetterSense]

My Tarheel friend, is that by chance a Technics turntable in your avatar...curious?

Yes, that is my technics SL1700.

 

[blockend]

I think this is just Internet myth with no basis in reality. I have never seen any data to substantiate this urban legend. Modern films make a straight contrast line and do it to tremendous densities with lower grain, higher speed, and better sharpness than anything available 40 years ago. Why would film get worse?

According to Voja Mitrovic, the printer who produced the work of HCB, Koudelka and other Magnum greats, modern fibre papers are incapable of producing the tonality of old bromide papers. Salgado stopped using Tri-X because he said the new formulation wasn't as silver rich as the old stuff. Bearing in mind they must have used thousands of sheets and rolls over the years, there's probably something in their fears.

That doesn't mean modern materials can't produce great results, but they'll have a slightly different look. Re. Cartier-Bresson's work, I recall being in a gallery and hearing someone complain how un-sharp his photographs looked in the flesh, and it's true that quite a few show motion blur. Black and white printing is like any other craft skill, you have to do a lot of it to be any good and keep "practising your scales" to maintain that level of skill. I worked in darkrooms for years and saw many good printers but only a couple of great ones. The main difference was they had a precise vision of what they wanted, and were prepared to dedicate whatever time and materials it took to realise that vision.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Let's be clear about one thing:You could buy the very same camera ,use the same film andget the same developer,paper and all the rest as HCB.Heck,you could even fly to Paris and roam the very same streets as he did.None of it will make your photograph as good as his.His photographic genius was not in what he used;It was in how he sawand his timing when to photograph,and that is a combination of talent andpractice,practice,practice.Keep working it and all the best to you

 

[Sirius Glass]

Let's be clear about one thing:You could buy the very same camera ,use the same film and get the same developer,paper and all the rest as HCB.Heck,you could even fly to Paris and roam the very same streets as he did.None of it will make your photograph as good as his.His photographic genius was not in what he used;It was in how he saw and his timing when to photograph,and that is a combination of talent and practice,practice,practice.Keep working it and all the best to you

Yes, exactly.

 

[ColColt]

What I had in reference to was not about composition, subject matter, lighting or where the photos were taken but rather about the tonal range, sharpness and great DOF on most of the photos with a 35mm camera and the available film at the time. In many I saw he had to have used f11 to have gotten the depth he did and there was no blur in most of them, some there was if someone moved at the instant of exposure indicating to me the speed must have been maybe 1/30th or 1/60th of a second.

 

[Bill Burk]

I was about to suggest following what Ralph Lambrecht suggested, and suggest reading what cliveh writes, as he's our closest link to HCB...

You mean you don't want to find inspiration to dedicate your life to following HCB's lead?

 

[cliveh]

Let's be clear about one thing:You could buy the very same camera ,use the same film andget the same developer,paper and all the rest as HCB.Heck,you could even fly to Paris and roam the very same streets as he did.None of it will make your photograph as good as his.His photographic genius was not in what he used;It was in how he sawand his timing when to photograph,and that is a combination of talent andpractice,practice,practice.Keep working it and all the best to you

+1

 

[darkosaric]

What I had in reference to was not about composition, subject matter, lighting or where the photos were taken but rather about the tonal range, sharpness and great DOF on most of the photos with a 35mm camera and the available film at the time. In many I saw he had to have used f11 to have gotten the depth he did and there was no blur in most of them, some there was if someone moved at the instant of exposure indicating to me the speed must have been maybe 1/30th or 1/60th of a second.

http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2011/09/09/my-time-with-henri-cartier-bresson-by-ishu-patel/

... Since he mostly shot in shaded areas he set his F stop at 5.6 or 8 and shutter speed at 1/60th to 1/125th of a second ...

 

[Nr90]

According to Voja Mitrovic, the printer who produced the work of HCB, Koudelka and other Magnum greats, modern fibre papers are incapable of producing the tonality of old bromide papers. Salgado stopped using Tri-X because he said the new formulation wasn't as silver rich as the old stuff. Bearing in mind they must have used thousands of sheets and rolls over the years, there's probably something in their fears.

Pretty sure Salgado switched to digital because he says his negatives are damaged by the frequent X-ray scans at airports.
See for example http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...-A-Gods-eye-view-of-the-planet-interview.html

PS: don't want to start yet another APUG discussion on the dangers of x-ray

 

[RobC]

PS: don't want to start yet another APUG discussion on the dangers of x-ray

Good because this was discussed a few days ago.

 

[removed account4]

Let's be clear about one thing:You could buy the very same camera ,use the same film andget the same developer,paper and all the rest as HCB.Heck,you could even fly to Paris and roam the very same streets as he did.None of it will make your photograph as good as his.His photographic genius was not in what he used;It was in how he sawand his timing when to photograph,and that is a combination of talent andpractice,practice,practice.Keep working it and all the best to you

you mean it isn't the magic bullet of the gear, i just can't believe that is to be true ..

http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2011/09/09/my-time-with-henri-cartier-bresson-by-ishu-patel/

... Since he mostly shot in shaded areas he set his F stop at 5.6 or 8 and shutter speed at 1/60th to 1/125th of a second ...

shucks, you mean he knew his mateials too ?!

 

[ColColt]

http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2011/09/09/my-time-with-henri-cartier-bresson-by-ishu-patel/

... Since he mostly shot in shaded areas he set his F stop at 5.6 or 8 and shutter speed at 1/60th to 1/125th of a second ...

That was an interesting read. I found this odd, however...

"Very rarely did he take pictures in bright sun light, instead he preferred to take pictures in either reflected light or shaded areas to avoid sharp contrasts and to capture all the details, textures and fine grey tones."

You can't always pick the light you want when there's things going on you want to photograph. I have noticed that what seemed like around 80% of his photos were in diffused lighting, as on an overcast day. What if there was an event, a photo essay you had been assigned to cover and the sun was out the entire time? I prefer an overcast day as well but seldom get my wish.

 

[Nr90]

Good because this was discussed a few days ago.

Hence the PS

You can't always pick the light you want when there's things going on you want to photograph. I have noticed that what seemed like around 80% of his photos were in diffused lighting, as on an overcast day. What if there was an event, a photo essay you had been assigned to cover and the sun was out the entire time? I prefer an overcast day as well but seldom get my wish.

Guess location is a factor. You're located in Tennessee right?
Central / northern Europe is less sunny, I imagine.

 

[ColColt]

There's always sunshine in the Volunteer state. None of that London fog here. However, I spent 18 months in Hanau, Germany and don't really recall more or less sunshine here than there.

 

[darkosaric]

What if there was an event, a photo essay you had been assigned to cover and the sun was out the entire time? I prefer an overcast day as well but seldom get my wish.

You know how did HCB covered the the coronation of King George and Queen Elizabeth? Answer to that will answer you this question as well .
I find it normal that when you photographing people that you avoid direct sun.

 

[Nathan King]

I'm not an expert in Cartier-Bresson prints, but I have seen my fair share in person. They were around 9.5 x 14 inches in size and extremely well printed. All had grain consistent with a 10x enlargement from a traditional emulsion. The reproductions in books look nothing like the actual silver gelatin prints.

 

[ColColt]

I find it normal that when you photographing people that you avoid direct sun

I totally agree with that but as I said, you don't always have a choice unless you coerce your subject into the shade. A good for instance is when they held the Miss USA pageant here back in the mid 80's. Afterwards she was walking about outside and crowds of people were taking pictures of her. The sun was out casting ink like shadows. If you planned on getting a shot of her you took it where she was. I doubt anyone could have convinced her to step in a less sunny place so they could get some pictures.

 

[darkosaric]

I totally agree with that but as I said, you don't always have a choice unless you coerce your subject into the shade. A good for instance is when they held the Miss USA pageant here back in the mid 80's. Afterwards she was walking about outside and crowds of people were taking pictures of her. The sun was out casting ink like shadows. If you planned on getting a shot of her you took it where she was. I doubt anyone could have convinced her to step in a less sunny place so they could get some pictures.

If HCB got a task to photograph Miss USA - he would most probably take photos of people in audience looking at Miss USA. That is why I mentioned coronation of King George and Queen Elizabeth - look how he did that assignment.

 

[ColColt]

He took mostly people watching the coronation, not King George and Elizabeth themselves, like George Beaton did.