How would (or wouldn't) IPA affect undeveloped film?

[MCB18]

I’m thinking about trying to de-remjet some cine film (250D and 50D), and the most annoying part is definitely drying. I have heard that IPA is a good drying agent, and will help speed up drying immensely. but I’m wondering how much it would affect the emulsion. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[MattKing]

For those whose minds default to beer, "IPA" here is most likely Isopropyl Alcohol .

 

[koraks]

@MCB18 there won't be much, if any, of an effect at all. Give it a try.

 

[MCB18]

For those whose minds default to beer, "IPA" here is most likely Isopropyl Alcohol .

I am not a beer person, so I didn’t know it had another meaning lol.

@MCB18 there won't be much, if any, of an effect at all. Give it a try.

Might try it on a test roll just to see what happens.

 

[brbo]

I’m thinking about trying to de-remjet some cine film (250D and 50D), and the most annoying part is definitely drying. I have heard that IPA is a good drying agent, and will help speed up drying immensely. but I’m wondering how much it would affect the emulsion. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I guess you are trying to de-remjet the film before exposing it in the camera? You are probably much more likely to damage the emulsion while removing remjet from the base than when drying the film or applying alcohol to speed up the drying process.

Am I missing something?

 

[Ivo Stunga]

I use 100% iso as a finishing stage for Antihalation Layer removal of Aviphot films.
No damage to report either to the emulsion or PET base.

I use it as 10-20% additive for my rinse aid that I use for ~10 films before discarding. No problems to report, just speedy drying.

 

[lamerko]

I use 100% iso as a finishing stage for Antihalation Layer removal of Aviphot films.
No damage to report either to the emulsion or PET base.

I use it as 10-20% additive for my rinse aid that I use for ~10 films before discarding. No problems to report, just speedy drying.

How long does it take to dry like this with 10-20% alcohol?

 

[grain elevator]

Why do you want to remove it before exposing the film? Are you looking for halation as an effect? If you remove it right before development, you wouldn't need to dry the film.

 

[Sirius Glass]

For those whose minds default to beer, "IPA" here is most likely Isopropyl Alcohol .

I too am confused why one would pour either good or bad beer on film. Please advise.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

How long does it take to dry like this with 10-20% alcohol?

Haven't done measurements, but gut feeling says thay the drying time is almost halved. With 100% iso we're talking up to ~5 minutes, with 20% about an hour? The more you add, the more expensive it gets, the quicker the drying. Could run an experiment.

Why do you want to remove it before exposing the film? Are you looking for halation as an effect? If you remove it right before development, you wouldn't need to dry the film.

For juicy halation to appear, one needs to 1) remove layers that protect against this, 2) expose film with layers removed, 3) develop ASAP to avoid fogging. For extra juicy effect, one can even put a white/gray paper on the film pressure plate for extra blooming...
Why? I love infrared. Infrared look of ye olde is tied to films having no antihalation layers.
If you take Aviphot, remove AH and expose it to IR light, the effect is replicated very closely.

If you'd remove your layers just before development, not before shooting, you'll get none of the effects. And AH gets washed away with development either way.

 

[guangong]

For those whose minds default to beer, "IPA" here is most likely Isopropyl Alcohol .

I was wondering how much beer would have to be consumed to effectively influence development. And limited to IPA?

 

[Sirius Glass]

I was wondering how much beer would have to be consumed to effectively influence development. And limited to IPA?

Imbibing too much beer will interfere with loading the film on the reels.

 

[guangong]

Imbibing too much beer will interfere with loading the film on the reels.

Speaking from experience?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Imbibing too much beer will interfere with loading the film on the reels.

Speaking from experience?

Also dropping the reels and knocking the two sides out of parallel. <<hic>>

 

[Philippe-Georges]

But, there is for by volume 4,5 to 20% of alcohol (*) in it, you should never despair...

Santé

(*) hopefully not Isopropyl...

 

[guangong]

Also dropping the reels and knocking the two sides out of parallel. <<hic>>

As long as we don't drop our Hasselblads.

 

[Anon Ymous]

How long does it take to dry like this with 10-20% alcohol?

FWIW, I mix 1 part isopropyl alcohol with 4 parts deionised water and whatever quantity of wetting agent needed, making a 20% IPA solution. I reuse this several times, nothing grows in it and there's the unmistakable smell of IPA whenever using it. Drying time will obviously depend on ambient temperature, but yesterday evening it was about 18°C and it took more than 2 hours to dry. At 2 hours it was mostly dry, but not completely.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Hehe, very similarly to what I do. Currently I put 10ml Mirasol Antistatic in 1l of said 20% IPA solution, and use this for 10 films. 15 is stretching it, marks start to appear.

Damn, I'll run the drying test today with my failed (accidentally exposed) slide film.
Will put it back on the reel, wash one Ilford wash cycle, then cut it in two and treat one half of it in regular distilled + Mirasol Vs the other half with added IPA, then hang both strips in air (bathroom) to dry at the same time, time it.

Drying will also be relative humidity dependent, but this should compare apples to apples at least

 

[Anon Ymous]

Drying will also be relative humidity dependent

Indeed it is. Yesterday was a humid day, which probably slowed things down a bit.

 

[GLS]

FWIW, I mix 1 part isopropyl alcohol with 4 parts deionised water and whatever quantity of wetting agent needed, making a 20% IPA solution

If you have a 20% solution of IPA in deionised water there is absolutely no need to add a separate wetting agent as well, as the IPA performs that same task.

 

[Anon Ymous]

If you have a 20% solution of IPA in deionised water there is absolutely no need to add a separate wetting agent as well, as the IPA performs that same task.

I suppose I don't, but since I already have some Photoflo 600 and I reuse this solution (and I obviously introduce some ultra hard water we have here every time I reuse it), I don't mind adding few drops of it. The results are definitely excellent.

 

[Xylo]

I just apply the photo-flo with a spray bottle. I mix it with distilled water. This makes it last for a very long time as I don't waste much of it.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Damn, I'll run the drying test today

Results inconclusive, needs more testing - PET film dried under 30min, both halves - 20% IPA got there first, but not by a huge margin. Need to test with denser film on triacetate.

 

[koraks]

20% IPA still leaves 80% water. I'd expect it to dry up in a little over 80% the time it takes to dry film that was rinsed in water and photoflo. That is to say, I'm not sure there really is a mechanism that will make the small percentage of alcohol drive off the remaining water. If anything, the opposite: the evaporation energy for the alcohol will cool the film, making the water evaporate more slowly. But this effect will be negligible.

Rinsing the film in 80% or so IPA would probably be more effective, but I'd consider it a bit wasteful and rather odorous.

Forced air flow will accelerate drying massively - but dust is a concern. Warmth will also help.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Agreed.
I started to add IPA to my 1l of rinse aid to keep it bug-free, so the speedup is just a bonus. And is a measurable speedup, but not halving of the time I pulled out of my ass some posts before. It could rather be from switching to PET films than starting using IPA.
Soon I'll reverse some Fomapan R 100 - triacetate film, will see then