How to replicate the tone and colours of old Agfacolor film, is it possible?

Fotokunst · Jun 4, 2018

Hello, I'm a young amateur photographer who has been shooting, developing and printing on black and white film since I started pursuing photography. For a variety of reasons I prefer black and white and I'll mostly keep with it, but I am interested in experimenting with colour. In my old family albums, and in colour movies from my country in that era, it seems that Agfacolor was used, which gives the colors a very unique look. I would like to be able to replicate this today, I know that Agfa is no longer around and even if they were they switched to using Kodak's colour process many years ago, so the film used to make those photos and movies would be 50 years expired if I could find it, but there is a way to create a similar effect. Below is a still from Die goldene Stadt, which was a film that was shot in Agfacolor, to give an idea of what I mean.

Thank you for your help and assistance!

jeffreyg · Jun 4, 2018

You could go Hybrid and get a preset that produces the effect.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

Fotokunst · Jun 4, 2018

jeffreyg said:
You could go Hybrid and get a preset that produces the effect.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

Oh, thank you for the advice but I'm not interested in hybrid or digital processes. I like to physically make my negatives and then my photographs and the only “editing„ that I do is with chemical processes and an enlarger. When I finish school and go professional I will probably need to get a scanner to put finished prints in so that potential clients can see some of my work, but since that is just posting a picture of the finished photograph, I don't think that counts as a hybrid process.

I was looking more along the lines of certain films to use and certain chemicals/processes to use when developing the negatives to get that effect.

Bob Carnie · Jun 4, 2018

I remember when I first started printing we used Agfa Colour paper and film and this image does remind me of those early days for me, It seems that the manufacturers like colder and more vibrant colours these days. You may
want to try putting filters on your camera to get a somewhat same effect with your current films... basically bias the colour to the way you want to print.

Fotokunst · Jun 4, 2018

Bob Carnie said:
I remember when I first started printing we used Agfa Colour paper and film and this image does remind me of those early days for me, It seems that the manufacturers like colder and more vibrant colours these days. You may
want to try putting filters on your camera to get a somewhat same effect with your current films... basically bias the colour to the way you want to print.

Thanks so much for your answer, it's a shame that they don't make film land paper like that anymore. As I said I usually shoot black and white on my Rolleiflex 2.8f, using Ilford Pan F ISO 50 or 100, but in my freezer I have a roll of Ektar 100 colour film, do you think that would be sufficient for something like this? What filters would you recommend?

macfred · Jun 4, 2018

Ektar seems to be much too saturated / 'punchy' (IMO) - I would try some Porta 400 or 800 (maybe with a warming filter).
I once -accidentaly- left a light-yellow/green filter on the lens (I used b/w-film before) using FUJI Pro 160NS and got this :

Not the same effect you're looking for but maybe a thought impact ...

Bob Carnie · Jun 4, 2018

I am not so sure, first off yellow to soften the scene and a warming filter, there are many here that will have better experience with this... Remember the new films are oversaturated and colder than back then so you will need a good optical filter setup, Practice with a roll of film set up with no filter then try a bunch .. have the lab balance your first test with the no filter and then have them print all at that balance... you will then see the effect of the filter... the lab needs to not auto correct each image or you will not learn anything from the experiment

Kino · Jun 4, 2018

Fotokunst said:
Hello, I'm a young amateur photographer who has been shooting, developing and printing on black and white film since I started pursuing photography. For a variety of reasons I prefer black and white and I'll mostly keep with it, but I am interested in experimenting with colour. In my old family albums, and in colour movies from my country in that era, it seems that Agfacolor was used, which gives the colors a very unique look. I would like to be able to replicate this today, I know that Agfa is no longer around and even if they were they switched to using Kodak's colour process many years ago, so the film used to make those photos and movies would be 50 years expired if I could find it, but there is a way to create a similar effect. Below is a still from Die goldene Stadt, which was a film that was shot in Agfacolor, to give an idea of what I mean.

View attachment 201884

Thank you for your help and assistance!

Will you be processing and printing the negatives yourself? I sure hope so or it will be very difficult.

Try a number of things:

Preflash the film on a texture free, evenly illuminated white card through a weak tobacco or tea colored filter. Give the test film 1/8 a stop exposures, accumulating up to a full stop of pre-flash. Rewind the film and then expose the roll on a static test subject with a chip chart or wide variety of colors. Process and evaluate by printing to get the minimum dmax in your blacks, but use the standard color filter pack for your printing paper in the enlarger from which to judge your effects.

Underexposure can desaturate color, but so can underexposing the print so it's probably safer to shoot normal gamma/density negatives and manipulate in the darkroom rather than risk too little exposure.

You can also try some very light diffusion on the lens to scatter light into the shadows.

TonyB65 · Jun 4, 2018

Fotokunst said:
Hello, I'm a young amateur photographer who has been shooting, developing and printing on black and white film since I started pursuing photography. For a variety of reasons I prefer black and white and I'll mostly keep with it, but I am interested in experimenting with colour. In my old family albums, and in colour movies from my country in that era, it seems that Agfacolor was used, which gives the colors a very unique look. I would like to be able to replicate this today, I know that Agfa is no longer around and even if they were they switched to using Kodak's colour process many years ago, so the film used to make those photos and movies would be 50 years expired if I could find it, but there is a way to create a similar effect. Below is a still from Die goldene Stadt, which was a film that was shot in Agfacolor, to give an idea of what I mean.

View attachment 201884

Thank you for your help and assistance!

Redscale shooting can produce a similar effect, different films product different levels of red and yellow, I've seen similar results from redscale shots, it's definitely worth looking into. FWIW I like that look too and will be experimenting with redscale myself.

MattKing · Jun 4, 2018

I last worked with Agfa colour like that in the 1970s.
The Agfachrome of the same vintage was fairly similar.
I think over-exposure might be part of your solution - along with diffuse lighting. The Ektar might be suitable, but something like Portra 160 would probably be better.
A warming filter would also help.

Fotokunst · Jun 4, 2018

Kino said:
Will you be processing and printing the negatives yourself? I sure hope so or it will be very difficult.

Try a number of things:

Preflash the film on a texture free, evenly illuminated white card through a weak tobacco or tea colored filter. Give the test film 1/8 a stop exposures, accumulating up to a full stop of pre-flash. Rewind the film and then expose the roll on a static test subject with a chip chart or wide variety of colors. Process and evaluate by printing to get the minimum dmax in your blacks, but use the standard color filter pack for your printing paper in the enlarger from which to judge your effects.

Underexposure can desaturate color, but so can underexposing the print so it's probably safer to shoot normal gamma/density negatives and manipulate in the darkroom rather than risk too little exposure.

You can also try some very light diffusion on the lens to scatter light into the shadows.

Thank you, this is an amazing help! I process all of my black and white myself, and have usually sent away the rare colour rolls that I shoot, but I will be developing these prints by myself in the dark room. Your advice has been extremely helpful!

AgX · Jun 4, 2018

The final solution would be a 3-seperation imbibition process like Dye-Transfer, where for each seperation one can control gradation, hue and saturation.

OzJohn · Jun 4, 2018

I think a point that is being overlooked here is that the frame Fotokunst has uploaded is faded. That image is almost devoid of cyan dye and colour has probably been lost through projection. Agfacolor most certainly had a different look in its day to Kodak and it was indeed less saturated but it did have a full colour palette. I doubt that the look of the sample could be reproduced other than by some sort of separation technique as AgX suggests or digitally (and the OP does not wish to go there).

mshchem · Jun 4, 2018

OzJohn said:
I think a point that is being overlooked here is that the frame Fotokunst has uploaded is faded. That image is almost devoid of cyan dye and colour has probably been lost through projection. Agfacolor most certainly had a different look in its day to Kodak and it was indeed less saturated but it did have a full colour palette. I doubt that the look of the sample could be reproduced other than by some sort of separation technique as AgX suggests or digitally (and the OP does not wish to go there).

+1

mshchem · Jun 4, 2018

macfred said:
Ektar seems to be much too saturated / 'punchy' (IMO) - I would try some Porta 400 or 800 (maybe with a warming filter).
I once -accidentaly- left a light-yellow/green filter on the lens (I used b/w-film before) using FUJI Pro 160NS and got this :

View attachment 201888

View attachment 201889

Not the same effect you're looking for but maybe a thought impact ...

Are these regular machine prints from a lab? This is a nice effect.

Fotokunst · Jun 4, 2018

OzJohn said:
I think a point that is being overlooked here is that the frame Fotokunst has uploaded is faded. That image is almost devoid of cyan dye and colour has probably been lost through projection. Agfacolor most certainly had a different look in its day to Kodak and it was indeed less saturated but it did have a full colour palette. I doubt that the look of the sample could be reproduced other than by some sort of separation technique as AgX suggests or digitally (and the OP does not wish to go there).

Good point, it may very well be faded. Here is an image with a lot more green from the English Wikipedia article on Agfacolor demonstrating the unique effect of it as well, so this might be a better reference point.

AgX · Jun 4, 2018

Agfacolor was a term used for many decades, used for basically different films, as negative and reversal films, films that even more evolved over time, even changing the basic process (type Agfacolor to type Ektachrome).

"Die goldene Stadt" is from 1942. It is one of the very first full feature movies made on the new neg./pos. process.

Rudeofus · Jun 5, 2018

Even if you despise hybrid processing, you could still take advantage of it by checking out whether such a plan is feasible with pure analog processing. You have a range of options to fine tune your analog image:

You can use filtration both during the photo shoot and during enlargement to alter color balance
You can change bromide and iodide content of your color developer to selectively over- or underdevelop individual color layers.
You can try insufficient bleaching or complete bleach bypass to reduce saturation and increase contrast. There are different bleaches which specifically go after stronger or weaker exposed regions.
You could use toning to alter the color of retained silver. Toning can also be done partially or in full. Rockland makes toners for a wide range of colors.
After CD and stop, you could reexpose with colored lights and develop with Rockland's redeveloper

So all in all there are many options to tweak results. Each process modification creates a specific set of changes, and it will be up to you to decide whether a carefully chosen combination of these steps can yield the results you're after. Hybrid processing would not be part of your final process, which shall remain purely analog, but it can roughly visualize what a certain process mod will do to your final result, thereby saving you from testing huge amounts of film.

PS: While the image posted in the OP looks very yellow, its darker look very neutral to my eyes. There may be some loss in cyan dye, but not in all density regions.

macfred · Jun 5, 2018

mshchem said:
Are these regular machine prints from a lab? This is a nice effect.

Lab developement - I scanned those negatives.

AgX · Jun 5, 2018

Fotokunst said:
Below is a still from Die goldene Stadt, which was a film that was shot in Agfacolor, to give an idea of what I mean.

Fotokunst said:
Here is an image with a lot more green from the English Wikipedia article on Agfacolor demonstrating the unique effect of it as well, so this might be a better reference point.

The first one is from a movie made in neg./pos. process. (One might question how that still was made.)
The second one is from the earlier reversal film.

newcan1 · Jun 5, 2018

See if you can find some bulk agfacolor portrait 160 on the auction site. It doesn't store too well, but I got some that is still useable and renders a kid of muted color palette and old school grain. Nice and retro.

Gerald C Koch · Jun 5, 2018

Good luck as Agfacolor used a different color developing agent no longer readily available from suppliiers of chemicals to amateurs. The film also used different color couplers than E-6. Then too the prints that you are looking at have faded and what you see no longer represents the originals.

Bob Carnie · Jun 5, 2018

These old photos may have suffered over time I agree, but faded or not, I think the OP is quite capable with on camera filters and exposure , as well as darkroom enlarger manipulations could easily reproduce that look... I know I could
if I had the interest and probably most on this forum who shoot colour negative and print themselves.

Ian Grant · Jun 5, 2018

I shot some Agfacolor negative films in about 1969/70, I still have the prints and remember how much better they were in terms of colour fidelity (and still are) compared to the Kodacolor and C22 process of that era, . It was similar comparing Ektachrome E4 to Fujichrome E4, and I did like the old Agfachrome (pre E6) but it's less colour stable. My agfa prints have been kept in the dark.

Maybe play with shortening the colour development time at the printing stage so you cut the colour saturation in the prints that should give a slightly washed out faded effect. Experiment with test strips so you can see the effects compared to exposure.

There were applied techniques used with colour film where you processed as B&W, fixed washed used a re-halogenating bleach, then after a wash re-exposed and processed in Colour developer followed by the normal bleach fix, this would also work with paper. You could use a soft working dveloper like ID-3.

Ian

mshchem · Jun 5, 2018

I know a young man who has stored a roll of Ektar in his car glove box for the last couple of weeks (50-60C) looking for interesting effects. Not sure that's the appropriate action? I like Mr. Carnies approach.

How to replicate the tone and colours of old Agfacolor film, is it possible?

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