How to Reduce Tri-X Contrast?

RattyMouse · Feb 25, 2018

I shot my first roll of Tri-X since I dont know when, maybe 7 years ago. The results are showing very high contrast and I want to know what I could have done to tame this. The literature from Kodak on how to develop this film are woefully insufficient for users of HC-110. Only dilution B is listed and the time is just too short. Useless. The Masive Development Chart has all kinds of times with such a wide range of variables that nothing seems definitive.

I shot this film at ISO400, and developed in HC-110, Dilution E for 7 minutes at 20 C. Continuous agitation for the first minutes and then 10 seconds every minute for the remaining time. Should I have done less agitation with a longer development time to tame the contrast?

Karl K · Feb 25, 2018

The general theory to reduce contrast is to lower the concentration of the developer and increase the time.
At room temperature, I use Rodinal 1:50 for 11minutes. When the subject's contrast is high, I use Rodinal 1:75 for 13 minutes.
I think HC-110 is similar to Rodinal, but others here can chime in.
By the way, I don't think your photo is so contrasty as to make it objectionable.
The floor is washed out a bit, and the shadow detail is not quite there, but perhaps printing on lower contrast paper will solve the problem.

Sirius Glass · Feb 25, 2018

Reduce the contrast by printing on a lower grade on multigrade paper.

RattyMouse · Feb 25, 2018

Karl K said:
The general theory to reduce contrast is to lower the concentration of the developer and increase the time.
At room temperature, I use Rodinal 1:50 for 11minutes. When the subject's contrast is high, I use Rodinal 1:75 for 13 minutes.
I think HC-110 is similar to Rodinal, but others here can chime in.
By the way, I don't think your photo is so contrasty as to make it objectionable.
The floor is washed out a bit, and the shadow detail is not quite there, but perhaps printing on lower contrast paper will solve the problem.

Thank you for the reply. Keeping the concentration of my developer the same, I should go from 7 mins to....?

voceumana · Feb 25, 2018

If the shadows in the picture show everything that is available on the negative, then you are under exposed (for the development used), and a little over developed.

Reduced agitation will lower contrast, and it will permit the shadows to develop further.
Increased dilution will also lower contrast.

My procedure for developing times less than 10 minutes was 30 seconds initial agitation--keep the agitation very gentle.

RattyMouse · Feb 25, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Reduce the contrast by printing on a lower grade on multigrade paper.

Please read the OP more carefully. This post has nothing to do with printing and everything to do with developing. Thank you.

Karl K · Feb 25, 2018

RattyMouse said:
Thank you for the reply. Keeping the concentration of my developer the same, I should go from 7 mins to....?

I wouldn't change the time at all.
Inspect the negative.
Is there detail in the shadows and on the floor?
If so, just print on lower contrast paper.
If not, then reduce HC-110 concentration a bit on your next roll.
You've chosen a subject that has very high contrast, so it's a challenge to make a perfect print.

Rudeofus · Feb 25, 2018

There are two simple ways to reduce contrast in normal photographic B&W film:

underdevelopment: either by reducing dev time or temperature, or by increasing dilution. You will have to expose more, the toe region will be rounder, but straight line contrast will be less. Check out this page for much more info on HC-110.
special low contrast developers, such as the ones posted by Michael R. These devs give you full speed, straight curves, and contrast selectable over a very wide range.

Sirius Glass · Feb 25, 2018

Experiment by reducing the development time by 10% or 15% with your developer of choice. Then compare the results.

removed account4 · Feb 25, 2018

voceumana said:
Reduced agitation will lower contrast, and it will permit the shadows to develop further.
Increased dilution will also lower contrast.

yup

or use a lower contrast / FLAT NEGATIVE developer like xtol

RattyMouse · Feb 25, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Experiment by reducing the development time by 10% or 15% with your developer of choice. Then compare the results.

"The general theory to reduce contrast is to lower the concentration of the developer and increase the time."

Why would I want MORE contrast by following your directions for less time?

RattyMouse · Feb 25, 2018

michael_r said:
Try 5 minutes. Development time is by far the most effective control for contrast. Your agitation seems ok (perhaps try agitating for the first 30 seconds instead of a full minute). Try giving a little extra exposure if the shadows are too thin.

"The general theory to reduce contrast is to lower the concentration of the developer and increase the time."

7 minutes gave me too high contrast and you want me to go lower to 5 mins. That directly opposes the advice above given to me.

RattyMouse · Feb 25, 2018

jnanian said:
yup

or use a lower contrast / FLAT NEGATIVE developer like xtol

I do not use XTOL.

Peter Schrager · Feb 25, 2018

RattyMouse said:
I do not use XTOL.

Well maybe you should
Regardless up the concentration like 1:47 Or 1:63 and reduce agitation..simple

RattyMouse · Feb 25, 2018

Peter Schrager said:
Well maybe you should
Regardless up the concentration like 1:47 Or 1:63 and reduce agitation..simple

Not going to happen. HC-110 has been my developer of choice for 7 years and running. DD-X is my second choice if that makes any difference towards suggestions. I will not now or ever use XTOL.

ic-racer · Feb 25, 2018

If that is the only printing paper you have (grade-wise) then give more film exposure and develop the next roll for 25% less time. Otherwise, print on a lower contrast paper.

You need to match the film development to the paper grade. You can change both.

RattyMouse · Feb 25, 2018

michael_r said:
The "conventional wisdom" is that you can reduce contrast by diluting the developer more and increasing development time. It doesn't really work with general purpose developers, so I'm saying don't do it. Keep it simple. Simply decrease development time to decrease contrast. Don't mess with dilutions unless your development time ends up being way too short. If 7 minutes gave you too much contrast, try 5 minutes.

Ah, I missed that these were linked. I thought they were independent suggestions. Going with a shorter development time worries me in that the highlights might drop as well, but I'll try it. Thanks.

iandvaag · Feb 25, 2018

michael_r said:
Simply decrease development time to decrease contrast.

+1

A simple axiom: exposure determines density and development time determines contrast (more time, more contrast).

RattyMouse · Feb 25, 2018

michael_r said:
I'm confused. If the negatives are too high in contrast, this implies the highlights are too high. Wouldn't you want the highlights to drop?

Ideally I'd like to just raise the shadows without moving the highlights too much.

JensH · Feb 25, 2018

Hi.

RattyMouse said:
Ideally I'd like to just raise the shadows ...

So expose at EI 200 or 250.

RattyMouse said:
... without moving the highlights too much.

So reduce dev. time from 7 to 5 min.

TX is a very good film for high contrast scenes; I often use it @250 in D76 or Moersch MZB...

Best
Jens

removed account4 · Feb 25, 2018

RattyMouse said:
I will not now or ever use XTOL.

i don't blame you, but it will reduce your contrast because it is that kind of developer
processing your film in caffenol spiked with hc110 will also reduce your contrast and you can
still imagine you are using hc110 ..

RattyMouse said:
Ideally I'd like to just raise the shadows without moving the highlights too much.

if that is the case
boost your exposure to at most iso 200

wiltw · Feb 25, 2018

RattyMouse said:
I shot my first roll of Tri-X since I dont know when, maybe 7 years ago. The results are showing very high contrast and I want to know what I could have done to tame this. The literature from Kodak on how to develop this film are woefully insufficient for users of HC-110. Only dilution B is listed and the time is just too short. Useless. The Masive Development Chart has all kinds of times with such a wide range of variables that nothing seems definitive.

I just consulted my Kodak Darkroom Dataguide which I used all too long ago in high school. It lists HC-110 dil B with Tri-X as 5.3 minutes at 68F, agitation for 5 seconds every 30. My initial agitation was only for 15 seconds. Lower contrast (one paper grade) could be obtained with only 3.6 min. of develop time.

removed account4 · Feb 25, 2018

wiltw said:
Lower contrast (one paper grade) could be obtained with only 3.6 min

developing times less than 5 minutes have a chance of yielding poorly developed unevenly developed negatives..
==
RM
you might consider doing ye olde film and developer test .. bracket your exposures and bracket your developing times
then examine the film the way you want to yield your prints ... then shoot another roll with the decided time and repeat until you get to
where you want to be ... while asking for advice on this forum, consulting massive developing charts, data guides, vintage texts
might give OK results some of the time ..
no one here knows your shooting, if your camera's shutters are right-on, your processing and mixing style .. so getting advice from people who
shout out answers like they are playing a gameshow might not yield the best results.

wiltw · Feb 25, 2018

jnanian said:
developing times less than 5 minutes have a chance of yielding poorly developed unevenly developed negatives..
==
RM
.

I have done tons of rolls of Tri-X in HC110 dil B and never encountered uneven development results. I fail to see where Kodak, one of the great conservatives in process control, would recommend a combination of developer and film when it is prone to issues for the majority. Plus-X at normal contrast was even shorter times than Tri-X...3.6 mins for Plus-X to have normal contrast.

RattyMouse · Feb 25, 2018

wiltw said:
I have done tons of rolls of Tri-X in HC110 dil B and never encountered uneven development results. I fail to see where Kodak, one of the great conservatives in process control, would recommend a combination of developer and film when it is prone to issues for the majority.

Page 3: HC-110, dilution B @ 70C development time, 3.5 minutes.

Right below that chart it says this, "Development times shorter than 5 minutes may produce unsatisfactory results."

See why I was confused?

http://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/products/f4017.pdf

How to Reduce Tri-X Contrast?

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