How to make Black and White Slides?

[Jon Shiu]

Hi, a sculptor asked me to take black and white slides of his work. What would be the easiest way to do this? I had an idea to use a c41 film like XP2 and then get the negs developed along with a set of slides from Dale Labs, but there must be a better way?

Jon

 

[gr82bart]

You can shoot Agfa Scala and send it to Main Photo in Orange, CA or can shoot regular B&W film and send it to dr5 in Denver, CO. Either way will get you B&W slides.

Regards, Art.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Ilford have a method sheet in their information centre that explains the process for B+W reversal processing. It isn't complicated but it does use some chemicals you wont have.

Obtaining those chems could be difficult with the current paranoid attitude by governments.


Graham.

 

[eumenius]

I usually process my BW negative film by a reversal process (Foma 4x5'' sheet, or rollfilm Ilford FP4+ (softer tonality) and PanF+ (higher contrast)). I posted my protocol on APUG once. In my opinion, the BW slides are worth the trouble, so if you like the result you might want to have the reversal chemistry in hands. But if this is a single-time job, maybe it's easier to shoot AGFA Scala, or more available Ilford negative films, and send them to dr5 for processing.

 

[Jordan]

I have a summary of methods for producing B&W slides on my website:
http://www.photosensitive.ca/BWslides.shtml

For your needs (B&W slides of artwork), unless you intend to make B&W slides over a long period of time, DR5 may be the simplest option.

 

[wilhelm]

Kodak still makes the Direct Positive kit for TMax 100. I used their kit back when it was for Pan-X, and it worked great. The process is only slightly more involved than a standard b&w process. Here is Kodak's info page on the kit.

 

[nworth]

The formulas for the kit are also on the Kodak website. Since the kit is pretty expensive, you might want to mix your own. The kit also works with other films, with varying degrees of success. It might be interesting to try it on some of the MACO films that develop to a clear base.

 

[Jon Shiu]

Thanks for the tips everyone. Since this is a one time thing, I'll look into having someone else process the film, either Scala or dr5.

Jon

 

[Brac]

Foma in the Czech republic still make a 35mm black & white slide film in ISO100. Probably someone like J & C will stock it.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Shooting XP-2 and getting it cross processed in E-6 should give some kind of clear-base monochrome transparency, but there's no guarantee the dye will be anything like a neutral black/gray. It'd be worth trying, though.

J&C do in fact carry the Fomapan 100R in a couple motion picture formats and 35 mm cassettes. It requires B&W reversal processing, however, not the same as E-6 at all.

Potentially the simplest way of all is to make ordinarly B&W negatives and then rephotograph them with a slide copying setup. Contrast control of the copies may require a couple iterations of testing, however.

 

[htmlguru4242]

Donald's right about XP2 in E6 chemisrty. It results in a purple-ish base (think under-fixed TMax color) with greenish - black image. Cool, but not necessarily useful if the photographs are for someone else looking for B&W slides. I'd imagine that with some exposure / processing twearking, good images could be obtained.

The other, more useful option is to shoot XP2 @ around ISO 100, develop in regular developer (I use D-76, 7:00 @ 69 ºF), wash thoroughly, dry and re-load back into the cartrige. The film can then be re-processed in C41, yeilding better B&W slides than in E6.

Straight reversal with the Foma film may be better, though.

 

[Jordan]

The other, more useful option is to shoot XP2 @ around ISO 100, develop in regular developer (I use D-76, 7:00 @ 69 ºF), wash thoroughly, dry and re-load back into the cartrige. The film can then be re-processed in C41, yeilding better B&W slides than in E6.

Now THAT is a cool idea.... drying in the light exposes the "positive" silver halide image left after development, which then gets taken to silver+dye in the C-41 dev -- after which all of the silver is blixed away. What is the image tone of the resulting slides like?

 

[htmlguru4242]

The slide's image tone is not bad. It tends to be a little off (usually greenish), though sometimes its shifted slightly blue - purple. I've only done two rolls, one's been green-ish, ones been purple - ish, but I think that I have exposure relatively nailed down now. It should be perfectly black, as that's how it is if its developed normally as negatives. It's certainly superior to E6.

There are two issues, however. If the negative is overdeveloped in the B&W chems, and / or exposed to light after the 1st dev. for too long, there is a lot of what appears to be base fog evident across the film. I believe that this is not necessarily fog, but just REALLY exposed silver that develops so black that the blix can't bleach it all (good 'ol silver retention). In a process with a bleach, fix (both separate), I'd imagine that they'd come out much better. There tends to be a purple base which is not a good thing in slides. Drop the negatives in fixer after they come back from the lab (for about 5 min.). This clears most, if not all of the base stain.

One tip; if you try this, make sure that you wash the negative well before sending it off to be processed. It's not good idea to mix D-76 with the color developer.

I'll post some scans after Christmas break when (and if) I get the chance. Not e that this only works with Ilford XP2, not the Kodak stuff, as XP2 is the only clear - based chromogenic B&W film.

This also works with regular colro film, by the way. The result is "positives" with decidedly odd color and an orange mask. Not useful, but pretty cool.

[end long-winded discussion]

 

[htmlguru4242]

I think I nay have missed the point of your last question. The color of the image is what I said. As to image tome, contrast, etc., it is pretty good. It doesn't compare to real B&W slides, but it is acceptable. The image is a little flat, but contrast and color (gray) gradations are pretty good.