How to know if film is advancing?

mollyclare · Feb 12, 2018

Hello, I've heard that with the Pentax MX, when you use the lever to advance the film after taking a photo, the film rewind knob on the left hand side is supposed to rotate along with the film. Mine does not seem to rotate when I advance it but the numbers increase? Is my film advancing?

R.Gould · Feb 12, 2018

After loading the film turn the rewind knob until it is tight, thus taking up the slack in the film, when you wind on the rewind knob will turn as you wind on the film, if it does not then the film is not loaded correctly, co check the loading, the frame counter will advance whether you have film in the camera or not, so carefully turn the rewind, if it does not tighten quickly then the film is not loaded correctly, but be careful that you do not wind the film into the cassette, if it tightens then the film is correctly loaded and if it is correectly loaded there may be a problem with the winding, but that is very unlikely, but certainly if the rewind knob is not turning when you wind on the film is not advancing
Richard

MattKing · Feb 12, 2018

Welcome to Photrio.
The test you refer to above is a good one, but to be able to rely upon it you sometimes have to first take the tension up on the film by rotating the rewind crank in the same direction you use to actually rewind the film. You should soon feel the film tension. If you don't, it means the film isn't actually attached to the take-up - it probably slipped.
The down side of doing this is that it can result in you accidentally winding the leader back into the film cassette.
It is better practice to tension the film this way before you close the back every time you load a new roll of film.

pbromaghin · Feb 12, 2018

MattKing said:
.
It is better practice to tension the film this way before you close the back every time you load a new roll of film.

Good tip!

Les Sarile · Feb 12, 2018

After you put the film in, take up the slack in the roll by rewinding carefully until you feel the tension of the film. From then on the rewind lever should turn whenever you advance the film. You can still do that at this point but if the film wasn't properly installed, you run the risk of rewinding the film leader into the film canister. There are ways you can pull the film leader out if you do.

On the MX - and other similar Pentax cameras, make sure to insert at least about a half an inch of film leader into the filmb take spool to insure a tight grip.

The counter will count up even if the film isn't advancing.

Alan Gales · Feb 12, 2018

When I bought my first 35mm camera I did not load it properly and the film slipped loose. The counter was counting but the film was not advancing. When I got the roll developed there was of course nothing on it. Someone told me to always watch the rewind knob turn when loading the film. I took that advice and it never happened to me again.

darkroommike · Feb 12, 2018

There is also a dot on the film rewind button on the MX, K1000, etc. As you advance the film the dot will help you observe that the rewind button is rotating and film is being transported.

Chan Tran · Feb 12, 2018

If you accidentally wind the leader all the way into the cassette you can pull it out using a leader extractor which cost around $10. Like this one
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/185975-REG/Samigon_35mm_film_retriever.html
It's a bit tricky to use and you may have to do several trials before you get it out.
or you can get this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Noritsu-SB...751667?hash=item4676238b73:g:vuUAAOSwiqFaebqe
which in my experience would pull the leader out over 90% of the time on the first trial.

AgX · Feb 12, 2018

mollyclare said:
Hello, I've heard that with the Pentax MX, when you use the lever to advance the film after taking a photo, the film rewind knob on the left hand side is supposed to rotate along with the film.

This is so with each 35mm camera that has a rewind knob/crank.

mollyclare · Feb 12, 2018

Thanks so much for your replies. So it's safe to assume the film is not advancing, will i be able to simply rewind and try again or will it be damaged in any way?

Les Sarile · Feb 12, 2018

mollyclare said:
Thanks so much for your replies. So it's safe to assume the film is not advancing, will i be able to simply rewind and try again or will it be damaged in any way?

You can. I would recommend openng the camera in a completely blacked out room or bag so you can confirm if the film had come off the roller. Much easier to feel the film with the camera open. Also, that way you don't rewind the film leader back in the canister.

Sirius Glass · Feb 12, 2018

As others has stated it is a good thing to do. After you loaded the film, turn the rewind until slightly tight.

mshchem · Feb 12, 2018

If you want to find out in a hurry . Put your left thumb on the rewind crank , hold it down , wind and fire the shutter 4 or 5 times quickly . If the rewind crank doesn't move under your thumb , pop open the back and put the leader in correctly . 35mm film is so cheap wind it to make sure it's on the take up spool before you close the back. And keep an eye on the rewind crank as you go through the roll..
If you want 40 exposures on a roll buy a Leica ☺ M.
Best Regards Mike

mr rusty · Feb 12, 2018

Even worse than the film not winding, is shooting a whole film and then opening the back and finding an empty camera!

Alan Gales · Feb 12, 2018

Here is a video on how to load 35mm film.

It does leave out one thing however. After you advance the film when loading, lightly rewind it just enough to help flatten the film out. This is what Sirius is telling you in post #12.

mshchem · Feb 12, 2018

mr rusty said:
Even worse than the film not winding, is shooting a whole film and then opening the back and finding an empty camera!

I never am surprised when I screw up. I once shot an entire roll of Ektachrome in a 120 rangefinder with a yellow K2 filter on. Shot a roll without it going anywhere , used a power rewind didn't figure out the film was blank till I developed it. .4x5 sheet film falling out of the holder into the bellows. I could write a book.
Oh boy . Mike

Wallendo · Feb 12, 2018

If the film isn't advancing, then there is no real reason to rewind it. Simply open the back and reload.

With most of my cameras, I will waste a frame by advancing the film with the back open as a security measure.

mollyclare · Feb 12, 2018

Thanks so much for your help everyone. Opened the back and it hadn't advanced whatsoever Luckily this was my first roll with the MX and I had only taken a couple of photos to test out different settings. At least now I've gotten to grips with the camera and now have a whole roll to do some real photos on.... but most importantly it's a lesson learned!

mollyclare · Feb 12, 2018

My gosh. Am I a newb or what. I just turned the rewind knob to make the film tight but felt no tension at all, opened the back and the film had not moved - it is now successfully winding - but the numbers have turned back very confused.. Have I now just made the camera think the 1st real exposure is the leader part? Anyhow I advanced again until the number was on 0 - they would've been exposed anyway as I opened the back. I guess I'll find out once the camera stops letting me advance even though it says I'm not on the 24th exposure yet

CMoore · Feb 12, 2018

mollyclare said:
My gosh. Am I a newb or what. I just turned the rewind knob to make the film tight but felt no tension at all, opened the back and the film had not moved - it is now successfully winding - but the numbers have turned back very confused.. Have I now just made the camera think the 1st real exposure is the leader part? Anyhow I advanced again until the number was on 0 - they would've been exposed anyway as I opened the back. I guess I'll find out once the camera stops letting me advance even though it says I'm not on the 24th exposure yet

Not sure i understand what you are concerned about.
You WANT The Counter to return to Zero each time you Open and then Close the back. If it did not, in your case, your counter would now read 2-3-4-5...whatever, but you would only be on Frame One after loading the film properly.

Bill Burk · Feb 13, 2018

I'd like to add that it should not become an obsession. Don't apply rewind tension to the film every time you handle the camera.

It can kink the film, I discovered this with OM-4 and 35mm lens. I kept getting half crescents in the skies and thought it was a problem with the lens. Then I realized, 35mm is my "walk about" lens, and I was in the habit of always checking the rewind. I now rewind to verify at the beginning, then leave it alone the rest of the roll.

Bill Burk · Feb 13, 2018

mollyclare said:
Anyhow I advanced again until the number was on 0 - they would've been exposed anyway as I opened the back. I guess I'll find out once the camera stops letting me advance even though it says I'm not on the 24th exposure yet

That's the deal, you'll be fine, just wind gently near the 20th exposure... expect it to end early when you reach the end of the film.

R.Gould · Feb 13, 2018

mollyclare said:
My gosh. Am I a newb or what. I just turned the rewind knob to make the film tight but felt no tension at all, opened the back and the film had not moved - it is now successfully winding - but the numbers have turned back very confused.. Have I now just made the camera think the 1st real exposure is the leader part? Anyhow I advanced again until the number was on 0 - they would've been exposed anyway as I opened the back. I guess I'll find out once the camera stops letting me advance even though it says I'm not on the 24th exposure yet

On all slr's when you open the camera back the counter resets to 0,

blockend · Feb 13, 2018

I think the confusion stems from the variety of loading systems on 35mm cameras. The principle is always the same, to attach film to a revolving spindle or drum, advance the film frame by frame, and rewind at the end of the roll before removing the cassette. Over the years a number of systems have evolved to assist this apparently simple operation, not all of which help!

Any system is workable, but some require familiarity with its quirks and habits. For example I never used a Praktica enough to understand the sprung clip on the take up spool. Nikkormat, a generally blameless camera, has an extremely short leader slot that never inspires confidence. I'm always surprised when automatic film advance cameras do what they're meant to, and the LCD goes to frame 1 instead of Err. Also, depending on how much leader has been pulled out the cassette, it can take up to frame 4 or 5 before the rewind knob is seen to move. If you have a fogged or long out of date film it's worth hanging on to as a practice film for future cameras.

guangong · Feb 13, 2018

mr rusty said:
Even worse than the film not winding, is shooting a whole film and then opening the back and finding an empty camera!

There is also variation #1: to shoot a roll of 36 exposures only to discover a forgotten rewound cassette was still in camera when attempting to rewind.

How to know if film is advancing?

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