How to get and use JIS Screwdrivers as opposed to Phillips

pentaxpete · Jan 27, 2017

I did a Video on how I got the proper 'JIS' screwdrivers and how they differ from the 'Phillips' type and show some of my Cameras -- you can see it here :

AgX · Jan 27, 2017

To my knowledge there are only two standardized types of cross-blades screwdrivers.
-) Phillips
-) Pozidrive

At first sight the only difference are the additional fins between the wings.

My experience over decades of repairing things is that one can't have enough different models of screw drivers, and even better modify them to best fit for the respective screws. The more petite a screw, the more important that is.
Even cross-wing screws that look the same bear different fit to several screwdrivers.

frank · Jan 27, 2017

AgX, now you can add a third type: JIS. They're used on Japanese motorcycles as well. (At least vintage Hondas.)

Leigh B · Jan 27, 2017

AgX said:
To my knowledge there are only two standardized types of cross-blades screwdrivers.
-) Philips
-) Pozidrive
At first sight the only difference are the additional fins between the wings.

Wrong.

JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) screwdrivers have been around since before WWII.
At a casual glance they look just like Phillips. They're not.

The mating surfaces of a Phillips are tapered, and the web at the center where they meet has a radius.
JIS drivers have flat mating surfaces, and the web at the center forms a square corner.

You CANNOT use a Phillips driver on a JIS screw successfully.

McMaster-Carr has a good selection of JIS drivers:
https://www.mcmaster.com/#jis-(japanese-industrial-standard)-screwdrivers/=163f2oc

Here's a good graphic from McMaster-Carr that compares the three crosspoint types:

- Leigh

AgX · Jan 27, 2017

JIS designated drivers never ever were marketed in Germany.

BUT no Phillips driver here has that Phillips-ikon shape. In contrast, the wings are straight.
With larger sizes there is a bevelled inside edge.
Smaller sizes got a straight cut practically into the inside egde, make them look like your JIS ikon.

Pete would be perfectly fine for instance with those Phillips types from the german manufacturer Wiha, which he likely can obtain without problems in the UK.

Leigh B · Jan 27, 2017

AgX said:
JIS designated drivers never ever were marketed in Germany.

And therefore they do not exist ? ? ?

Methinks not. Every Japanese camera ever built used them.

And they're the proper driver for German Compur shutters and Rolleiflex cameras.
Perhaps the German companies used a different name for that screw head.

- Leigh

Michael Guzzi · Jan 27, 2017

AgX said:
JIS designated drivers never ever were marketed in Germany.

BUT no Philips driver here has that Philips-ikon shape. In contrast, the wings are straight.
With larger sizes there is a bevelled inside edge.
Smaller sizes got a straight cut practically into the inside egde, make them look like your JIS ikon.

Pete would be perfectly fine for instance with those Philips types from the german manufacturer Wiha, which he likely can obtain without problems in the UK.

I used Wiha screwdrivers on the bottom plate of my FE-2 when it had an end of roll jam. It rounded off both screws (one completely), luckily I managed to clear the jam by advancing with the coupler intended for motordrives. The damn screwdriver kept camming out, and the metal in those screws is so soft...

Ordered the same set that Pete has, not a problem ever since.

BMbikerider · Jan 27, 2017

Leigh B said:
And therefore they do not exist ? ? ?

Methinks not. Every Japanese camera ever built used them.

And they're the proper driver for German Compur shutters and Rolleiflex cameras.
Perhaps the German companies used a different name for that screw head.

- Leigh

No not all. All the early Japanese cameras that I have owned, some from the 40's up to the 1st Nikon F era all had simple single slot screws. As does my Minolta SRT101. (a number of 6x6 folders, Canon rangefinders, Pentax S1a,Sv, Spotmatic, OlympusOM1, Minolta Autocord, and a number of others)

AgX · Jan 27, 2017

I never ever had problems with the cross-slit screws at any japanese autofocus compact with the size Phillips 00 from Wiha.

If problems occur with Phillips or Pozidrive screws I experience those with larger sizes and then with the lenght of the tip.

Real trouble only occurs to me with single slit screws. There always will be one where I still do not have the right tip made for.

trythis · Jan 27, 2017

My favorite phillips head driver is a General brand 0x4 #702 that I have turned many Nikon body screws with with no problem. Its a remarkable 7 3/4" long driver that I don not think they make any more. I have looked for a set that matches its design and come up with nothing. The current kit they have looks nothing like it.

Anyway, Ifxit has a kit.
https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Tools/JIS-Driver-Set/IF145-115

Leigh B · Jan 27, 2017

AgX said:
I never ever had problems with the cross-slit screws at any japanese autofocus compact with the size Philips 00 from Wiha.

"I eat my peas with honey
I've done it all my life
It makes the peas taste funny
But they stay on my knife."

Doing something all you life does not constitute a definition of good practice.

- Leigh

AgX · Jan 27, 2017

I guess I got 70 different screwdrivers, loose bits not counted. I have machined myself spanner wrenches much better than whatever I see at commercial camera workshops.
I make mistakes and do not know everything. But I am scrupulously correct in not marring anything, or even spoil a screw head.
I call that good practice.

Leigh B · Jan 27, 2017

AgX said:
But I am scrupulously correct in not marring anything, or even spoil a screw head.
I call that good practice.

I certainly agree that is good practice.

It's also virtually impossible to achieve that result if using a Phillips driver on a crosspoint (IS) screw.

The only way you can even insert a Phillips driver into a JIS head is to use a driver much smaller than the correct size.
That's because the Phillips web is thicker than the JIS web for a given head size.

- Leigh

AgX · Jan 27, 2017

I do not use Phillips drivers that are too small, but fit flush. If they were too small, I would have ruined a screw sooner or later.

Leigh B · Jan 27, 2017

AgX said:
I do not use Philips drivers that are too small, but fit flush. If they were too small, I would have ruined a screw sooner or later.

Then you've managed to circumvent the laws of physics.

- Leigh

bsdunek · Jan 27, 2017

AgX said:
To my knowledge there are only two standardized types of cross-blades screwdrivers.
-) Philips
-) Pozidrive

Actually, there are a lot of cross recess screw/screwdrivers. To name a few: Phillips, Fearson, Reed & Prince, JIS B 02, Mortorq, Pozidriv, & Supadriv. If you get into other types of screw head types, there are probably at least 100. Of course only a few are popular in any one country. Just FYI.

fdonadio · Jan 27, 2017

trythis said:
Anyway, Ifxit has a kit.
https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Tools/JIS-Driver-Set/IF145-115

Is this really how much a set of high-quality screwdrivers costs? Or this set is not that hogh-quality?

Cheers,
Flavio

Mick Fagan · Jan 27, 2017

Pete, wonderful clip. Watched it right through.

The Robertson square drive screw, invented, patented and manufactured in Canada in the early 1900's was the first screw that could be used to aid in the manufacture of automobiles and other machine based manufacturing. It saved a considerable amount of manufacturing time. It was able to be used by self centreing machines, industry took this up with gusto, but mainly in Canada.

Henry Ford wished to use these screws and also wished to manufacture them under licence, in the USA, to which Robertson said no.

Henry found another inventor, by the name of Phillips who was busy inventing a similar screw to the square drive, but this was in a star fashion. Phillips invented the Phillips head for Ford, with one outstanding feature. As the screw started to firm up to the correct torque, the driver would pop out of the screw. This was an astounding achievement that Ford utilised heavily in his automobile production. After the success with the Phillips screw and drive system. Phillips then busied himself with inventing the Pozidriv system that doesn't slip out as maximum torque is reached.

I know a bit about screws.

Mick.

Ps: Robertson and Phillips reminds me of the battle with Apple and Microsoft. One retaining manufacturing rights, the other releasing manufacturing licenses around the world.

Dennis S · Jan 28, 2017

Thanks for the tip. Was using the British set for many years so I rounded off the slots in a few. A friend of mine gave me one but there was no markings on it and it and I could not identify it but worked great for cameras. Looked for a set and got prices up to $175. Found a set through Amazon.ca for $20 that are identical to your video display

trythis · Jan 28, 2017

fdonadio said:
Is this really how much a set of high-quality screwdrivers costs? Or this set is not that hogh-quality?

Cheers,
Flavio

Not sure, made in the USA, but I just bought some. coupon code "fixit2017" saved $5

pentaxpete · Jan 28, 2017

Great set of replies !! Thanks so much !! I'm no camera repair expert so do not take tops off cameras only the bottom plates .

fdonadio · Jan 28, 2017

trythis said:
Not sure, made in the USA, but I just bought some. coupon code "fixit2017" saved $5

Nice. Please, drop a note here when you get them.

Cheers,
Flavio

removed account4 · Jan 28, 2017

Mick Fagan said:
Pete, wonderful clip. Watched it right through

+1 !

Wayne · Jan 28, 2017

frank said:
AgX, now you can add a third type: JIS. They're used on Japanese motorcycles as well. (At least vintage Hondas.)

And my 82 Kawasaki KZ305, so I'm sure its used on most KZ's from that era. But I used a Master Mechanic 442442 snub nosed Phillips bit in lieu of a JIS on mine.

neilt3 · Jan 28, 2017

pentaxpete said:
Great set of replies !! Thanks so much !! I'm no camera repair expert so do not take tops off cameras only the bottom plates .

Good of you to put this up , very helpful .
I knew about the JIS cross head screws and had been meaning to get some as a few of my cameras need a bit of work on them .
I didn't know there is a different slotted driver , it explains why I've struggled in the past .

Although I've found this set by ifixit , it only has the cross head type ;
https://eustore.ifixit.com/en/Tools/Drivers-Wrenches/JIS-Driver-Set.html?cur=1&lang=1
https://eustore.ifixit.com/en/Tools/Drivers-Wrenches/JIS-Driver-Set.html?cur=1&lang=1
On Amazon UK I've found this set listed as " Vessel Precision Screwdriver Set Td-56 " at £14 .
It looks like the same set as you have , but I can't find mention that it's for the JIS screw .
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000CED...TF8&colid=2JU8KGIUNBKF4&coliid=I21KDDJ2E32O6G
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000CED...TF8&colid=2JU8KGIUNBKF4&coliid=I21KDDJ2E32O6G
Could you please confirm that I am looking at the correct item , or share the link to the set you bought ?

Thanks .
Regards , Neil .

How to get and use JIS Screwdrivers as opposed to Phillips

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