How to earn a living from landscape photography

tlitody · Jun 28, 2010

not to put too much of a downer on the idea, take a look at some sucessfull landscape photographers web sites and see what they do and then emulate in your own style. I think you'll find the two brits grafted for years to get where they are. And I think Quang-Tuan Luong photographed all the US National parks before he gave up his day job to make his living purely from photography.

So it can be done if you have a mind and the will to do it.

http://www.joecornish.co.uk/

http://www.charliewaite.com/

http://www.terragalleria.com/

Mainecoonmaniac · Jun 28, 2010

Be imaginative with opportunities

It would be great if a landscape photographer could make a living just shooting and selling prints. First off, you'll have to do promoting like other APUGers suggest to build your reputation. Once you have a reputation, you'll probably have to teach via workshops, a faculty position at a university or at a college. Other sources of income are stock sales and commercial work. I went to a talk by Michael Kenna and was inspired by his work. I saw some of his work at the Wirtz gallery in San Francisco and saw his 8x10 prints for sale at $600 each. Minus the gallery commission, he'll probably get get $300 at best. He also does commercial jobs. Here's Mr. Kenna's site.

http://www.michaelkenna.net/

Stephen Wirtz site: http://www.wirtzgallery.com/main.html

Good luck!
Don

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 28, 2010

Splitting hairs? I was stating that their source of revenue is not just print sales. I doubt they'd be in the business of Lodima Press, selling archival products, and investing in the photo paper business unless they thought it would pay off and be a source of additional income.

But it doesn't matter. I'm very sorry for the digression, I should have tried better to address the OP.

I have been advised many times to not quit my day job, and I sincerely hope that is not a reflection on the quality of my work :rolleyes:
The problem we're up against in establishing credibility in the collectors' market is that it takes time. The Polaroid collection was just auctioned up, as part of their bankruptcy settlement, at Sotheby's. An Ansel Adams mural sold for $750k (including Sotheby's cut). Did Adams' himself ever see such 'appreciation' for his work in his own lifetime? No.

I really think it's difficult to support a life and a family being a landscape photographer. I think it will even be amazingly difficult to break even.
But I've also met photographers that take their own pictures, print them, frame them in cheezy frames, and sell them at local markets for say $100 for a 20x24. And they are there, year after year with a big pile of cash in their pocket.

Can it be done? It is being done. I mentioned Alec Soth and Michael Kenna. They are doing it. Why not you?

seadrive said:
I'm not privy to anyone's financial information other than my own, but M&P state pretty clearly on their web site that they support themselves from the sale of their prints. They spend a good chunk of time visiting curators and collectors.

Lodima Press may run at a profit (again, no way for me to know), but it's doubtful that M&P have even begun to recoup the investment they made in Lodima Fine Art paper.

In any case, I think that Picker was largely correct when he said that "the business of fine art photography" really doesn't exist. When fewer than a dozen people are making a good living at something, it hardly qualifies as a viable business model.

tlitody · Jun 28, 2010

Mainecoonmaniac said:
It would be great if a landscape photographer could make a living just shooting and selling prints. First off, you'll have to do promoting like other APUGers suggest to build your reputation. Once you have a reputation, you'll probably have to teach via workshops, a faculty position at a university or at a college. Other sources of income are stock sales and commercial work. I went to a talk by Michael Kenna and was inspired by his work. I saw some of his work at the Wirtz gallery in San Francisco and saw his 8x10 prints for sale at $600 each. Minus the gallery commission, he'll probably get get $300 at best. He also does commercial jobs. Here's Mr. Kenna's site.

http://www.michaelkenna.net/

Stephen Wirtz site: http://www.wirtzgallery.com/main.html

Good luck!
Don

If you look at the info at his site about commercial work you find that the majority of that was doing work for car manufacturers. That is what funded his personal work that most of us know him for.

Mainecoonmaniac · Jun 28, 2010

Art photography is a lost leader

tlitody said:
If you look at the info at his site about commercial work you find that the majority of that was doing work for car manufacturers. That is what funded his personal work that most of us know him for.

Could his commercial work be his bread and butter and his landscape photos are a lost leader? I know that sometimes, art directors use fine art photographers for a look instead of full time hired guns. :confused:

tlitody · Jun 28, 2010

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Could his commercial work be his bread and butter and his landscape photos are a lost leader? I know that sometimes, art directors use fine art photographers for a look instead of full time hired guns. :confused:

possibly but personally I don't think so. I suspect the first job for a car manufacturer got him the rest and he had an agent in london and probably elsewhere too.

R Shaffer · Jun 28, 2010

Here is a business model to follow - Peter Lik

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36670858/

Gotta Love it

tlitody · Jun 28, 2010

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Could his commercial work be his bread and butter and his landscape photos are a lost leader? I know that sometimes, art directors use fine art photographers for a look instead of full time hired guns. :confused:

Actually if you look at the models in those car adds they are mostly fairly old. I suspect he makes plenty out of print sales these days.

patrickjames · Jun 28, 2010

Thomas Bertilsson said:
And even so, they do a lot of other business on the side with their Lodima press, selling Lodima paper and archival products, as well as giving work shops. So their revenue is most certainly not prints only.

But that just proves the point. You would have to be Michael Kenna or Alec Soth to be able to make a living off of the photography part of it only.

To even further burst your bubble, both Kenna and Soth do work on the side. Making 100% of your income from landscape photography just does not happen. The old saying is if you want to make a small fortune at photography start with a large one.

I don't know how good of a photographer you are, but don't quit your day job unless you are independently wealthy. If you love doing photography though, keep doing it. No one can take that away from you.

Sirius Glass · Jun 28, 2010

patrickjames said:
I don't know how good of a photographer you are, but don't quit your day job unless you are independently wealthy. If you love doing photography though, keep doing it. No one can take that away from you.

This bears repeating:

"... but don't quit your day job unless you are independently wealthy."

Steve

Vaughn · Jun 29, 2010

Somewhere along the way I became a "professional photographer" for income tax reasons, and many of my habits lent in that direction. But instead of a goal of supporting myself fully from my landscape photography, I opted for living, as an artist, a life of photography. Raising a set of triplet boys (now 13-yrs old) influences that "life of photography" a bit, but working halftime as the university's darkroom tech keeps me centered. A lot of good students pass through the program...and since I am not a professor, I tend to work with students who come to me for help or to bounce ideas off of. It keeps photography fresh. Finding images and making prints are my primary focus, but I like the balance I have struck.

Giving workshops reminds me of my years building and maintaining wilderness trails. Up at first light, turn the mules out to graze, get the fire going for coffee and breakfast. Work for 8 or so hours with pickaxes, crosscut saws, McLeods, shovels, Polaskis, pack saddles, and mule-headed mules -- then make camp, turn the mules loose again to graze, get a fire going, cook dinner, and wash the dishes just before the sun sets. A long day, but a lot got done. It is satisfying work and at the end of the day, one can turn around and see the progress and achievements of the day. And I will no more be rich from giving workshops than I would by packing mules and building trails. But they are enjoyable ways to live, and in both cases one works hard -- both are worthwhile work, and worthwhile things are worth doing well.

My present circumstances dictate that I increase the amount that photography contributes to my overall income. Fortunately, those present circumstances also have given me every other week to concentrate on my photography. For the last 4 months I have been able to add (after expenses) about 50 percent more to my usual take-home pay through workshops and print sales. I do not expect to keep that up, but I won't complain if I do.

Like they say, it is not just the destination, but also the journey that is important. So I figure a job/profession is not just the path to retirement.

Vaughn

eclarke · Jun 29, 2010

wclark5179 said:
"Like you I am semi retired..."

Yes, I'm trying to be semi-retired but I get calls quite a lot to do stuff.

The wedding I did Saturday June 26 was wonderful. Previously, I did the brides sisters wedding & the grooms brothers wedding. There are a couple more siblings to get married.

I only have a web site left for advertising so I'm trying to taper off. Already have a couple of other gigs scheduled! Still love the business. My associate photographer is 63 (I'm 62) and we decided we would like to do this at least another ten years!

If people still like what photos I make then I'm up for it! I've always said beauty is in the eyes of the checkbook holder!

Thanks for your thoughts.

This is a nice place!

Wedding photography, a different thing from landscape photography, the OP's premise...Evan Clarke

eclarke · Jun 29, 2010

"But I've also met photographers that take their own pictures, print them, frame them in cheezy frames, and sell them at local markets for say $100 for a 20x24. And they are there, year after year with a big pile of cash in their pocket." I've been attending art fairs for decades and really suspect a lot of the "photographers" are selling stock that they have purchased, see the same photos too many different places. Better to take up a sure fire career like rock music or football star than landscape photography. Once you start trying to make a living from art, it's just a product and there's a LOT of this product out there, better to sell something else...EC

wclark5179 · Jun 29, 2010

"Wedding photography, a different thing from landscape photography, the OP's premise...Evan Clarke"

I make landscape photographs at every wedding. I think they're called environmental photographs. I get to some pretty beautiful places. Many weddings today take place at venues other than a church. Some even in a beautiful location that would make into some nice landscape photographs! It's that I have people in my landscapes and I'm hired to make the photographs!

At any rate, you are correct, the thread was started on the premise of landscape photography, most likely w/o people in them but I don't know for sure. I point out what I do as I've made some money doing what I do. Wasn't that a consideration of the OP's?

tlitody · Jun 29, 2010

Word is that its getting much much harder to make money doing wedding photography. Digital has made it far easier and much much cheaper to produce prints and an amateur can do a basic job that cheapskate brides are happy with. And Brides demand a CD with full res images so you get no reprint work. Same with Landscape. Everyone has a digital camera that does an OK job producing keep sake photos. So its only the super high quality prints that very few people are actually prepared to pay for. The market has changed drastically over the last 10 years. People are producing inkjet landscapes just because they can do it cheaply and the punters know it costs nothing because they can get reasonable quality prints themselves from the online print services even if the photography isn't too good.

wclark5179 · Jun 29, 2010

"Word is that its getting much much harder to make money doing wedding photography."

A person still can earn a decent living with wedding photography and a few other types sprinkled into the business. What I've seen change over the past 5 years or so is a large influx of new photographers & the avenues to get noticed by potential clients. I'm treasurer (my 4th year serving on the board) of our Twin Cities PPA and I have watched it grow tremendously the last few years and we now have over 300 members. We have many vendors who partner with us as well as the Hennepin Vocational School located in Eden Prairie MN. At Hennepin Vo Tech they have a photography curriculum and we encourage students to attend (they can attend for free) our monthly seminars and get themselves noticed by other photographers some who maybe looking to add a person(s) to the business.

There still is and I believe always will be a need for professional photographers as we, as humans, are social creatures with a sense of establishing purpose to our existence here on earth. Photography is a way to share and preserve our existence and treasure memories of events that happen during our lives.

You are correct that the industry has changed and is still changing. Unlike some other industries it is vibrant and alive.

2F/2F · Jun 29, 2010

It is difficult to earn a living from landscape photography. I'm not so sure I would want to pursue it myself. Not a lot of people are so lucky as to truly earn their living with it. The way I see it, I work a day job and occasionally shoot weddings and other commercial crap so that I don't have to be worried about making a living when I am doing landscape photography for my own benefit.

Ric Trexell · Jun 29, 2010

I just remembered going to a park over some holiday, I think Memorial Day and there were people selling things. One guy was an aerial photographer and had pictures of all the lakes in the county. I was raised on one of those lakes but the angle of the shot didn't show my old stomping grounds. So if you were to do something like that you would need to think about getting pictures from different angles. The pictures were super sharp so he either had a high end digital or a medium format I presume. Maybe even a LF camera. Ofcouse the cost of hiring a pilot and getting enough people interested in a certain area would be the big problem. It is something you might wish to look into as there are not many doing that. If you were taking a shot of one building, then you might need to get a property release. Ric.

JBrunner · Jun 29, 2010

Sometimes I get to do what I want to do. Most of the time I do what I have to do. That, in my experience, is what it takes to make a living with a camera, which I do.

Perry Way · Jun 29, 2010

This thread is a very interesting one to read, and savor. Thanks to everyone who's shared. There are pro's in here sharing things amateurs are sharing and vice versa. As for the OP and his query, I am dead set on figuring a way to make landscape a profitable endeavor for the same reasons as others shared, it is my favorite thing. But in the mean time I have noticed squeals of delight from people as they viewed some of my portrait work. I haven't been very excited about portrait work, but after getting those reactions I have found myself thinking over and over again that that must be the ticket to financial independence from "the day job". I had some fun doing the portrait work but yeah my real heart felt feelings are on landscape. Can't change that, but maybe what I could do (hoping this will work) is get portraiture to pay the bills, allowing me to spend a decent amount of time doing landscape.

tlitody · Jun 30, 2010

Perry Way said:
This thread is a very interesting one to read, and savor. Thanks to everyone who's shared. There are pro's in here sharing things amateurs are sharing and vice versa. As for the OP and his query, I am dead set on figuring a way to make landscape a profitable endeavor for the same reasons as others shared, it is my favorite thing. But in the mean time I have noticed squeals of delight from people as they viewed some of my portrait work. I haven't been very excited about portrait work, but after getting those reactions I have found myself thinking over and over again that that must be the ticket to financial independence from "the day job". I had some fun doing the portrait work but yeah my real heart felt feelings are on landscape. Can't change that, but maybe what I could do (hoping this will work) is get portraiture to pay the bills, allowing me to spend a decent amount of time doing landscape.

Your thinking is good. Just consider what the general public ever use photographers for. The answer is potraiture, weddings and a little pet photography and maybe some property shots. All other uses of photographers are generally for commercial purposes and it is commercial where the steady income stream will come from.
Business to business is generally far more profitable, and especially if you can get big clients as they will be happy $1000 plus on a days shooting whereas the public won't. You just got to work your nuts off to get the clients.

Mainecoonmaniac · Jun 30, 2010

Another route to earn a living is to get government grants to shoot landscapes. Yes the photo biz has changed a lot in the past 10 years. We are a creative lot that can adapt to the fickle photo market. Those that know how to promote their work and get into galleries will increase their chances of making a living at it. For most of us, we will have day jobs to support our passion and I'm one of them.

benjiboy · Jun 30, 2010

In today's World in a Global recession I think that if a person can make a living at all either having a business or working for a company they are very fortunate, and to even consider quitting your day job for a field that is so competitive and that everybody and his brother think they can do, and that even the best practitioners in the field have difficulty in making enough to survive on is very foolish.

ted_smith · Jun 30, 2010

I like the idea suggested by several of selling some prints at a flea marker or 'car boot sale'. I've not got anywhere near a large enough collection to do that yet, but I might work towards it!

sly · Jun 30, 2010

I have read this thread with great interest. I would like to be able to retire from my day (and night) job within the next few years and devote myself to photography full-time. Most of the small change I've made from photography to date has been pregnant women and babies. I see myself expanding on that, and finding some sales for landscape and other "arty" stuff.
My kids are grown and gone and raising their own families. Our mortgage payments are tiny by todays standards. I've got alot of gear already. My biggest problem is going to be charging what I'm worth (and need to get by) and bill collecting. I have big issues around money, asking for it, ashamed of appearing greedy and money-grubbing. My up-bringing is part of that, as is the time I spent as a single mother on welfare. I believe I can do it, if I can be rational about charging for my work.

How to earn a living from landscape photography

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