How to deal with photography deniers?

[Ces1um]

I was 'out' with my Linhof about 10 days ago... trying to get an image of the beginning of the big 'ice-melt' around the edges of the local pond. Just after as I was removing the film holder as I came out from under the dark-cloth a 'couple' (who were out walking their dog) made a couple of derogatory comments (thinking I might not overhear) about 'another' polluter putting silver salts down the drain.
I stood and exclaimed that I actually 'recover' the silver from my used fixer before it goes down the drain in my darkroom sink.. I said I actually save the used fixer in a large glass 'carboy'... add used 'but not dead' developer to precipitate the silver from the used fixer and 'collect' the 'black silver' precipitate by filtration, wash it well and have a friend melt it down in a muffle furnace. to a 'blob' of silver which he can sell and I get my 50%
"Black silver", I was informed a number of years ago, is one of the 'purest' forms of silver you can get and well worth the effort to 'save' from going into ANY sewage sewage system.

Ken

I'm shocked they even knew there is silver in black and white film. Actually, how did they even know you were shooting black and white? They must have watched a documentary or something.

 

[Ces1um]

I've only ever had a couple people approach me when shooting my film cameras. Most have been genuinely interested. I overheard one lady tell her friend, "He's a real photographer." as they walked away. I guess I'm lucky but nobody has ever said anything really insulting to me yet.

 

[removed account4]

Sorry for my confusion, but I have lost track of what this thread is about. Is it about regular people claiming that film photography doesn't exist ( so they are denying the availability of film &c ) or is it about people who use digital media being gungho about their love of digital cameras &c?

If I run across someone who is gungho about digi or clueless that film is still around, I usually direct them down the street about 1/2 a mile to a lab where they can have their photos from their phones or dcams printed on photo paper, or take their film to be processed and printed.

Just the other day, I ran into some older ladies in a dunkin donuts the other day when I was window shooting,
the conversation went like this

them " Wow old camera!You can't get film for that can you? "
me " Sure you can but you have to into the city or get it on the internet if you don't want to drive"
them " Boy i have my old canon i should clean it up and start using it again ( smiling )
them " <...> but where can I get the film developed?"
me " Take to it Kerry on Warwick Ave, she's awesome, a real artist, and the last lab standing. Don't take it to the Walmart or drug store; they send it out, it takes weeks and then, they don't give your film back, just your pix" .
me (Gave them a business card ) "If you have phone pix I am able to "enlarge" them for you. You know how they seem HUGE but in the end they are about 1x2" when you print them up .. " ( they smiled and nodded )​

It was a nice conversation

If it was someone who was in my face that you couldn't get film anymore ( yadda yadda yadda ) I just say I know how to make my own and that is a different conversation, usually about Charles Darwin, and a Xerox Machine.

I really see no point in being confrontational even if the person attempts to be offensive and in my face. I'm not really sure what the point is.

As they say on the car lot YMMVFTSOTW

 

[Black Dog]

This happens to me too - I don’t know if it’s the film camera or because I’m usually solo, but I often get asked to take photos of people. I also struggle with the various phones and digicams, because they are not always intuitive to use.

Snap! I did get handed a film camera recently to take a group portrait and they said to me "you're probably more used to using a phone"...that still cracks me up.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Sometimes at a scenic spot I'll see a guy about to make a photo of his girlfriend or wife, or a group of people where one person steps out to make a photo, and I'll offer to make the photo so they can all be in the photo. Usually they have a small digital camera or a phone. I keep up with the latest cameras, so I don't have a problem getting a good photo of them.

I do have a film camera with me, so they're more likely to see me as a "photographer".

If their phone or camera is a high-spec model, I'll run away with it.
(not really)

 

[Sirius Glass]

As they say on the car lot YYMVFTSOTW

Please translate.

 

[Black Dog]

Please translate.

Something about how your mileage might vary ?

 

[Agulliver]

Up until a couple of years ago, the standard reaction of other people to seeing me out and about with a film camera was to stare at me as if I were an alien from outer space. Occasionally someone would ask if my camera was real, if it was loaded and be quite dumbfounded when I said it was. More than once I've been asked where one can buy film and I say "Boots" (huge pharmacy chain in the UK) and people are gobsmacked. It's right there in front of them and they don't know it's still available. Some people couldn't understand why I wasn't shooting digital but I would always simply say "I do shoot digital too but this is more fun". Seemed to keep them quiet.

More recently I find other humans are also out and about with film cameras. I get people shooting me knowing winks, or even asking me what my camera is and what film I'm using that day....if I develop my own or not. On two recent occasions I've gone to restaurants with a Polaroid 600 and the waiters (different restaurants) also own a Polaroid...know about the Impossible Project and offered to take a photo of our group dining....visiting the table periodically to see how the photo is developing.

A few months ago a guy walked into the pub with an early 90s SLR around his neck complete with large flash on the hot shoe. I had to check it wasn't my reflection in a mirror.

 

[faberryman]

I think a lot of the stories posted here by film users tell us more about how they see themselves than how others see them. Perspective is everything.

 

[jtk]

I think a lot of the stories posted here by film users tell us more about how they see themselves than how others see them. Perspective is everything.

Yes. Exactly. Self importance. BS.

 

[BrianShaw]

Yes. Exactly. Self importance. BS.

Possibly just self-impression rather than the negativity stated as “self-importance.” But if that made you feel more important by writing that...

Ha ha ha.

 

[Black Dog]

Up until a couple of years ago, the standard reaction of other people to seeing me out and about with a film camera was to stare at me as if I were an alien from outer space. Occasionally someone would ask if my camera was real, if it was loaded and be quite dumbfounded when I said it was. More than once I've been asked where one can buy film and I say "Boots" (huge pharmacy chain in the UK) and people are gobsmacked. It's right there in front of them and they don't know it's still available. Some people couldn't understand why I wasn't shooting digital but I would always simply say "I do shoot digital too but this is more fun". Seemed to keep them quiet.

More recently I find other humans are also out and about with film cameras. I get people shooting me knowing winks, or even asking me what my camera is and what film I'm using that day....if I develop my own or not. On two recent occasions I've gone to restaurants with a Polaroid 600 and the waiters (different restaurants) also own a Polaroid...know about the Impossible Project and offered to take a photo of our group dining....visiting the table periodically to see how the photo is developing.

A few months ago a guy walked into the pub with an early 90s SLR around his neck complete with large flash on the hot shoe. I had to check it wasn't my reflection in a mirror.

Haha nice story; each to his or her own. I'm always happy to chat about photography when people ask myself what I'm doing...maybe they might be inspired to dust off their Dad's old Rolleflex or whatever.

 

[removed account4]

everyone wants to feel important and have worth
the most important thing to do with people who deny film exists or that film cameras exist or can be used is just take all
that negative vibe and make great photos and the BS spewed at you can be the photos caption

"nice waterfall" ( caption reads: person saw me set up my camera and called me a liar when I told him I was using film )
"nice bridge" ( caption reads: why don't you use a real camera, you can't get film anymore and you are wasting your time )
"nice portrait" ( caption reads: person who I gave a point and shoot to who didn't realize you could still get film )
"nice scenic" ( caption reads: print from guy who used to not know, now I process and print his black and whites for him )

 

[DREW WILEY]

Weird. Almost everyone I run into around here recognizes I'm using a film camera if it's visible. They might see a big wooden tripod strapped to my backpack and ask whether I'm a surveyor first, or if I have a big spotting scope for birdwatching; but once that's clarified and I tell them a camera is in the pack, they automatically recognize it's some kind film camera, then ask if I'm shooting medium or large format. And that in itself implies film is still around, so they might ask where I still get it and how they can get involved in film photography or set up a darkroom themselves. And if I'm just toting a Nikon around my neck they know it's not digital, and state they admire that I'm still doing the "real thing" (their words, not mine). But then they might ask what I think about digital, and I just reply, "what's that; never heard of it", and they smile in return.
There's no need for me to defend or apologize for what I'm doing. It's the other way around. They sure as heck aren't going to get the quality of prints I do, no matter how much they paid for their digital gear. And you have to keep in mind that in this area there are lots of techies and digital engineers who design all that kind of stuff. Do you think they want to do the same thing on their spare time? Heck no. They envy someone like me who has a real darkroom. I've even had CEO's of software corporations walk up to my 8x10 and politely ask if they can look under the darkcloth. One even put his little grandson up on his shoulders to look in, while he still had the opportunity to see what a "real camera" is; again, his words, not mine.

 

[Vaughn]

I do monthly day trips to yosemite, so I see all types of people and photographers. when there, I shoot 100% film, usually medium format. and usually the same thing happens to me at tunnel view.

Its usually the Japanese tourists and the European tourists. "can you take our photo? you obviously know what you are doing, you are shooting film". and so it begins. once you become the nice person who took someones photo, you take everyone's. Its kinda funny though how some poeple like to give grief or laugh cause you shoot film, but some others assume you are a pro or very knowledgeable because you shoot film. It does make me feel competent!

I have prints up at the Ansel Adams Gallery thru June, if you are interested and can spare time from photographing (I totally understand if you don't -- not the most exciting part of Yosemite!)

I have never gotten any guff when setting up the 8x10 or the 11x14 in Yosemite Valley -- such things are taken as SOP there, I guess.

Two Minutes in the Life of a Photographer, 8x10 Carbon print, Yosemite Valley

 

[jamesaz]

A gentleman at a street fair commented on my carrying a spotmatic. We chatted for a bit and he told me he had been a film shooter but went digital because the necessary infrastructure was no longer conveniently available after losing his house/darkroom in an unplanned downsizing.
That anecdote has nothing to do with anyone denying anything though. Other than that time, I guess when people see me with a TLR or 4x5 they mind their own business.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Gosh, Vaughn, that's great timing, catching a shot of a bear right out of hibernation!

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Gosh, Vaughn, that's great timing, catching a shot of a bear right out of hibernation!

Not just any bear: that's the rare Ursus Photographicus Maximus.

 

[jtk]

Possibly just self-impression rather than the negativity stated as “self-importance.” But if that made you feel more important by writing that...

Ha ha ha.

Cute. Nya, nya, nya, etc.

Brian, do you make prints? Or do you just have them "done" for you? Or was that a long time ago?

 

[BrianShaw]

Cute. Nya, nya, nya, etc.

Brian, do you make prints? Or do you just have them "done" for you? Or was that a long time ago?

Yes; sometimes; not really.

... and Boxers.

Any other random personal questions you’d like to ask?

 

[M. Axel Wikstrom]

A rather famous NYC press photographer came into our gallery not long ago, and could't understand why I was still using film. He tried to give me the advice to forget film and go digital. I guess he couldn't get past HIS workflow in the deadline-diriven world where his clients will accept nothing other than digital files. He couldn't seem to understand that fine art prints for a gallery is completely different.

 

[NB23]

I’m a die-hard film lover, but as this rather famous nyc press photographer, I would have never even considered for one second to shoot film in any of the 350+ weddings I have shot over the years.

But still, I am rather surprised that he can’t make a difference between fine-art photography and press work...

A rather famous NYC press photographer came into our gallery not long ago, and could't understand why I was still using film. He tried to give me the advice to forget film and go digital. I guess he couldn't get past HIS workflow in the deadline-diriven world where his clients will accept nothing other than digital files. He couldn't seem to understand that fine art prints for a gallery is completely different.

 

[removed account4]

He couldn't seem to understand that fine art prints for a gallery is completely different.

But are they really that completely different ?

There are plenty of die hard film photographers from 2 or 10 or 40 years ago who make fine art prints using modern methods: Look at Jerry Ulesmann for example.
Please don't get me wrong, I love film, I love photo paper, I love making emulsion and making cyanotypes and retina prints and sun prints but I also think that there is very little difference between the two media ( sorry for using a modern techy name for digital and analog photography ). I think that people who use a digital camera make far to much of a fuss over the fact that they are using a digital camera, and people who use film make too much of a fuss over the fact that they are using film and other organic materials. I have said this im not sure how many times on this website ( 100? 200? more? less? ) that it is too bad people can't get along. Besides if photography deniers what to deny more fun exists that they either don't know about or gave up on, its their own problem.

 

[CMoore]

Far from home, a few days ago I was wandering thru Lauterbrunnen in the Swiss Alps, taking in the gorgeous scenery. While mostly electrocuting bits, I also was exercising my TLR. As Faire Spouse and I wandered we were intersecting occasionally with a number of folks who appeared to be three generations of an extended family. They were chatting away in Japanese and one of the men appeared to be “designated photographer” who was busily getting pictures of various kids in front of the scenes.

In a park at the base of a spectacular waterfall I heard a shift in the rhythm of the speech. I looked over and saw one of the older women standing near the photographer — and pointing at me! Sure enough, the guy turned, smiled, and headed toward me. In English he said “nice camera” and I held it up for a better view. He took a quick look, “Ah, Yashica, that is very good camera.” So we had a brief conversation about our cameras, with some of the others smiling, and eventually moved on with everybody exchanging good wishes for the rest of our travels. Definitely left a glow of warm fuzzies!

So....... you heard the correct pronunciation of the name "Yashica"

 

[DWThomas]

So....... you heard the correct pronunciation of the name "Yashica"

Hehe -- funny -- I don't remember thinking anything unusual about it at the time, but now I honestly don't remember what syllables he accented. (And then who knows -- even Japan may have regional accents! ) Anyway, that was one of several experiences on that latest trek that left me feeling more hope for humanity.