How to buy a Leica?

[Erik Petersson]

http://www.mwclassic.com/ for example. Is that a reputable seller?

 

[250swb]

http://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/

Red Dot Cameras are probably the best for second hand equipment in London

Steve

 

[elekm]

Don't get a camera that is too beat up. While Leicas can take a lot of abuse, one that has been obviously mistreated could require a total overhaul.

There are enough Leicas out there that you shouldn't have to buy someone's piece of crap.

I'm not a fan of photographers who toss their cameras about. Cameras are still precision equipment, and there'ss only so much that they can take before they break down.

 

[Xmas]

The M2 is a nice toy and you can get

a fast rewind crank (for Leica MP or 3rd party)
quick load spool (Leica or 3rd party)
grip if you have large hands (ditto)

a M4-2 is cheaper but ugly sister or even M4-P

I've used J12 (FSU) in a LTM adapter but a Cosina Voightlander 35mm f/2.5 in LTM (or M) is not much more and fast handling.

If you are in London our street markets are made for 400 ISO at /125 /5.6 and 2m prefocus. If someone complains mimic the chef from the Muppets.

Or a Canon P or Canon 7 cheaper still but still fast handling and quicker reloading.

 

[Pioneer]

There is certainly a bunch of Leica koolaid floating around in this thread.

For the record, in my experience Leica cameras are certainly wonderful pieces of equipment, but they will also require regular service and adjustment. Don't forget, the M2, M3 and M4 cameras were all built at least 30 years ago, some of them as long ago as 50 or more years. They are very old.

The Voigtlander Cosina cameras are much, much newer. They have meters. Film is loaded in a more normal manner. They are very reliable and they cost far less. Are they as smooth in operation as a Leica? No. Does that make them less reliable? Who knows! They have not been around that long. Will they need adjustment at some point? Sure, most cameras do. Especially rangefinders. Nobody makes a rangefinder that will not eventually go out of adjustment, not even the sainted Leica. (See below.) Will they need repair more often? Who knows. There is anecdotal stories of Voigtlander Cosina (VC) camera needing repair in 12 to 18 months. I can tell you the same stories about Leicas. In fact, if you were to go on my experience I have never had to send a single one of my three VC cameras in for service, while having to have several Leicas repaired in the same time period. Does that mean anything important? Of course not. Your own experiences will almost certainly be completely different than my own.

Leica makes great cameras and I love working with them.

Voigtlander Cosina makes great cameras and I love working with them as well.

If you find a good Leica, buy it. You will probably enjoy it. If you find a good Bessa R2 or R3 that you like, buy it. You will enjoy it as well.

And if you are interested, Zeiss Ikon also made a terrific, modern M-mount rangefinder that is a wonderful camera.

EDIT - The rangefinder in the Contax II is the only rangefinder built that I am aware of that will probably last for a very long time without adjustment. But by this time the glue holding the prisms together is about ready to start to deteriorate and fail, if it hasn't already. When that happens the secondary image disappears.

 

[Erik Petersson]

Thanks for your comments. I held a few Leicas and they felt fine in my hand. Haven't tried the others, Bessas, Voigtländers etc. I get the same feeling from my FED's, but the viewfinder is too small. That's why I think Leica.
I want to get rid of most of my Nikons and Soviet cameras and think less about gear.

 

[Xmas]

There is certainly a bunch of Leica koolaid floating around in this thread.

For the record, in my experience Leica cameras are certainly wonderful pieces of equipment, but they will also require regular service and adjustment. Don't forget, the M2, M3 and M4 cameras were all built at least 30 years ago, some of them as long ago as 50 or more years. They are very old.

The Voigtlander Cosina cameras are much, much newer. They have meters. Film is loaded in a more normal manner. They are very reliable and they cost far less. Are they as smooth in operation as a Leica? No. Does that make them less reliable? Who knows! They have not been around that long. Will they need adjustment at some point? Sure, most cameras do. Especially rangefinders. Nobody makes a rangefinder that will not eventually go out of adjustment, not even the sainted Leica. (See below.) Will they need repair more often? Who knows. There is anecdotal stories of Voigtlander Cosina (VC) camera needing repair in 12 to 18 months. I can tell you the same stories about Leicas. In fact, if you were to go on my experience I have never had to send a single one of my three VC cameras in for service, while having to have several Leicas repaired in the same time period. Does that mean anything important? Of course not. Your own experiences will almost certainly be completely different than my own.

Leica makes great cameras and I love working with them.

Voigtlander Cosina makes great cameras and I love working with them as well.

If you find a good Leica, buy it. You will probably enjoy it. If you find a good Bessa R2 or R3 that you like, buy it. You will enjoy it as well.

And if you are interested, Zeiss Ikon also made a terrific, modern M-mount rangefinder that is a wonderful camera.

EDIT - The rangefinder in the Contax II is the only rangefinder built that I am aware of that will probably last for a very long time without adjustment. But by this time the glue holding the prisms together is about ready to start to deteriorate and fail, if it hasn't already. When that happens the secondary image disappears.

Cosinas can be very reliable but if they fail they may need parts/modules Leicas can be the same but less likely normally shutters can be rebuilt from generic parts. The Cosina LTM &M lenses are solid workhorses.
Leicas dont need regular service you can use them till they fail- my IIIc not been touched at least since '75, when I bought it, it is near 65 years old.
ContaxII are not uber reliable the ribbons snap regular a Nikon S3 a better shooter.
The Zeiss M is a Cosina module replace camera.

The choice of a rangefinder is do you like the finder? Is the wind on ok?
Subjective things but that is why people buy them.

 

[Pioneer]

Cosinas can be very reliable but if they fail they may need parts/modules Leicas can be the same but less likely normally shutters can be rebuilt from generic parts. The Cosina LTM &M lenses are solid workhorses.
Leicas dont need regular service you can use them till they fail- my IIIc not been touched at least since '75, when I bought it, it is near 65 years old.
ContaxII are not uber reliable the ribbons snap regular a Nikon S3 a better shooter.
The Zeiss M is a Cosina module replace camera.

The choice of a rangefinder is do you like the finder? Is the wind on ok?
Subjective things but that is why people buy them.

Like I said, I love working with Leica cameras. And I love working with the rest as well.

I have Leica cameras that have been working for a long time. I also have Leica cameras that seem to need adjustment every year or so. I am not personally sold on the reliability of Leica but that has been my own experience. Others have different experiences.

In the end you pay your money and you take your chances. Fortunately for us they are all great cameras and we can have great fun using them.

 

[Erik Petersson]

Hi again. Found a nice M4-P for sale in Stockholm today. It feels solid, just one thing, the rangefinder does not line up at infinity. I guess that's easy to fix, but it stopped me from buying it. The asking price is SEK 5 000, which approximates to 554 Euro or USD 760, which feels just a little on the expensive side.

I'll be grateful for any advice.

 

[Erik Petersson]

Another thing - the little waxed black dot above the lens mount did not have any engraving. Should I worry about that?
thanks in ahead.

 

[Xmas]

Another thing - the little waxed black dot above the lens mount did not have any engraving. Should I worry about that?
thanks in ahead.

Id not worry about the dot only Leica service centres and a few repair people ever bothered.

If you want the camera for shooting a horizonial error is focus error a vertical error is distraction - at least. Setting the rfdr is difficult some of the service people don't bother much.

Lots of people set them on shelves in glass cases so there is a large premium on condition try to get a dinked shooter that has a 'bounce' noise at 1/15 and a clear and accurate rangefinder.

An 3rd party M service (not Leica factory) in London is 120 GBP ... a factory is kidney.

 

[Pioneer]

If it were me I would just keep looking.

When buying a camera that is already in good shape, where everything works when you buy it, you know that everything is in good condition at the time of purchase.

When buying a camera that is already not working correctly, you are assuming that everything is in good shape and just needs an adjustment. You are probably right, but you could be wrong.

A good one at the right price will show up eventually. Besides, this is allowing you an opportunity to learn those things that should be avoided.

 

[zeta3]

Have a look in London first.

Red Dot cameras.
Aperture UK - near British Museum
Robert White.
There is place on the Strand near Waterloo bridge (I forget the name).

If you dont get it serviced when you buy it, you will need a service within a few years. I prefer a service when I buy it.

They are all good. My preference is M3 for 50mm lens. I have the .85 viewfinder on the M6 which is good for the 75mm and a .58 viewfinder on an M7 for wide angle lenses.

 

[semi-ambivalent]

Erik,

I didn't see it mentioned yet but the earlier M3s had a film advance that required two strokes to advance a frame (because the Leica folks thought a single stroke would have enough torque to rip the film). Later serial numbers have a single stroke advance. The point is that the double stroke advance cannot be repaired except by replacing it with the single stroke mechanism-quite a bit more expensive. There is also some legend that seven digit serial numbers (1 000 000 +) are "the best" because...well, I don't know why. Maybe it takes the Germans a long time to learn how to properly build something they created. . Seven digits command a premium. My 979 xxx M3 has been fabulous. You might find the M3's viewfinder limiting as regards 35mm WAs but Leica made a quarter of a million of them so you'll run into them a lot as you search around. You're across that ocean but you might search/email Youxin Ye, a well known Leica repair/sales guy. He always has some cameras around and seems to be a pretty straight shooter. He CLA'ed my M3 before I purchased it (from another party).

Good luck!

 

[Erik Petersson]

Thanks everyone for all your excellent advice! And look what I found in London!

 

[Pioneer]

Enjoy. They are terrific little cameras and with the appropriate service could probably outlast you. At any rate you have years and years of wonderful experiences in your hands.

 

[Erik Petersson]

May I ask another question in this thread? I found someone selling a case for an M3. Does anyone know if the case might fit my new M4? The M3 case appears to be so small so that it fits in my briefcase. I could take the camera to work everyday. And that would be something good.

I plan to have a small lenses on the camera. Currently a small jupiter.

 

[Xmas]

The case tripod screw needs to be the same size as your Ms tripod bush.

Some cases were made to only fit over collapsible lenses.